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Post by horseguy on Aug 16, 2016 17:05:56 GMT
Yesterday Karen and I visited a new barn and liked the couple who run it. They have taken over a former stable and are starting up from scratch. They used to operate a horse transport business. I think that says a lot. Picking up unfamiliar horses and delivering them across the country requires skill, courage, patience and caring. The place was left in a mess, as tenants often do. I offered to help clean it up and look forward to some farm work again. I didn't say much about my horse history. Karen told them I once trained polo horses. The woman said she had an encounter with a polo horse once. It took off and went to top speed in a couple of strides. That's a polo horse.
We are due for a sane barn experience. The first stable operator suffered from an intense bipolar disorder and she would regularly become incapable of caring properly for the horses. The second stable was run by a couple with a woman who takes first class care of horses but her husband is a drinker who failed to plow the snow on the long driveway last winter and is openly abusive in his stupor. He's hard to be around, so we are moving again.
I am cautiously optimistic that this will be or barn. We will be among the first boarders. Everyone will be new to each other and the farm. There is no type or theme for the barn, not a breed, sport or anything, just horses being boarded. That fits with the transport business experience. I never knew a hauler who was specialized, but I hear there are some like racehorse transporters.
It's an adventure. Also, it's near a large park with horse trails. I'm looking forward to riding there with our hound Hammer who does not really enjoy our new life in a town house. Should be interesting.
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Post by horseguy on Aug 28, 2016 12:50:46 GMT
I'm starting to move stuff to the new barn, 3rd one in one year. Of course I have to ask, has the transition from having my own farm to becoming a boarder been a struggle because of me or because of the two barns thus far encountered? Both, I think. The first place was run by a certifiable crazy person who wouldn't treat a cut with ointment because she said "it would be practicing veterinary medicine", so I had to drive out there every day for a while to put stuff on a cut. The second place had one nice person with a drunk spouse who didn't plow the long driveway when it snowed. OK, but then I have my standards too.
I hope this new barn is a better match. All I am looking for is a barn that I feel I can go to and not encounter intense levels of human dysfunction. Hmmm, that might be impossible. I just want to ride in peace.
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Post by Maritza on Sept 3, 2016 0:24:48 GMT
I hope for your sake (and the sake of the horses) that this one works out. I have gone through something similar finding a farm to ride at. After I moved I had a lesson at 2 different places and luckily I found one I think will work out very well for what I want.
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Post by grayhorse on Sept 6, 2016 6:59:24 GMT
Hope this one works out for you... I have found shopping for a boarding facility to be both exciting and a pain all at the same time.
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Post by horseguy on Nov 1, 2016 22:43:03 GMT
Today I was out at our third boarding barn in a year here. As usual, by noon the water in the pasture was empty. I filled it. Two stalls had manure, lots of it, I noticed first on Saturday. I personally like the smell of horse manure if it's fresh and alive, and I like it as dirt all broken down, but after 3 or 4 days it just smells rank, so I cleaned two stalls. I was there to meet a very nice woman who has been not been riding for several years. It was a really nice meeting. She is a life long horseman and very skilled and observant. I had cleaned the stalls before she came because I would have been embarrassed for her to arrive and see/smell them. We had a nice ride and then the 20 something instructor showed up around 2 PM to check the waters. She proceeded to get a horse out of the pasture and tie him to a metal gate.
I think I have seen horses or ponies run down a road more than a couple times dragging a metal gate they were tied to. I also had a neighbor years ago who used Parelli DVDs to get into horses. He called me one day and asked me to come over quick to his place. When I got there I saw a nice looking small mare lying on the ground, eyes bugged out, panting, tied to a gate that she had a couple legs tangled in. One leg was obviously broken. I offered to put the horse down but he wanted to call a vet.
So with the horse tied to a gate the fun began. A trailer arrived with a horse wearing an auction tag glued to his butt. The first thing I always do is remove those darn tags after I check out of an auction. The "managers" at the barn had not prepared an isolation stall for this new horse, so the guy got some wood, nails and a hammer to convert what looks like an old chicken coop into an isolation stall. The energy in the moment there was a mix of chaos and stupidity, people running around, banging, horse stuck in a trailer alone... No Preparation. No anticipation. Winging It Farm I call it. It was so peaceful before they all arrived. Me, my hound and this very nice horse woman enjoying a nice fall day with horses. Someone, in the chaos, let the weeks old kittens out of the tack room and my dog killed one. They blamed the dog.
I went to put the my horse back in the pasture and the chain that secured the gate had been pirated, apparently to secure the door on the chicken coop. A fine small chain with a broken hook had replaced it. I left. I figured the horses have been in that pasture long enough to make it through the night without testing the little chain. I will get a proper chain tomorrow morning and go out to fix it. I just needed to leave for my sanity.
This part of PA is definitely not a horse area. These people posing as barn operators and instructor are incredible, and the fact people trust them with horses is unbelievable, and worst yet, I am one of the boarders. I will start to look for another barn in the morning. This one is close to home, which was the draw. We left the last barn due to the hard core drunk husband who didn't plow the driveway after snowstorms and yelled all the time. We had gone there to get away from the bi polar woman's barn. You might ask why not go to a better barn. Because there are two decent barns close by but they are both Hunted/Jumper barns where riding outside the arena is forbidden. Oh, and there is an Arabian barn with an operator with big hair. Limited choices. Looks like we will have to travel a distance to our next barn.
The nice woman horseman I met today and I got talking about how American horsemanship has sunk. I gave her my US Olympic Eventing Team speech, which she agreed with. Incredible day. I am glad a real horse person was there with me. I felt less alone in the chaos.
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Post by rideanotherday on Nov 2, 2016 12:28:23 GMT
Wow. I'd be out of that barn too. Sorry it got crazy.
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Post by horseguy on Nov 2, 2016 19:39:10 GMT
Wow. I'd be out of that barn too. Sorry it got crazy. Yes, it's crazy. This morning I went out to the barn with a replacement chain for the pasture gate. I installed it in a way that makes it very difficult to take and use elsewhere. There was a new horse in a stall and the trailer they rented was still there. I wonder if they moved the auction horse and then used the trailer to go get the other new horse, and then put the other new horse in the barn, after it was transported in the same trailer as the auction horse. If so, and it looks that way, the quarantine in the chicken house is pretty useless. I didn't want to move to this barn. Karen was for it because we'd get away from the loud drunk and we'd be closer to the house. Plus, it's near a big park with trails. But I knew the people were amateurs or worse with horses. I know that I get very disturbed at idiot horse owners who are living a dream that they are expert horse people. Anyway, we ended up there and now we have to get out before something really bad happens. The morning gets "better". When I arrived the water was low as usual. The security chain across the barn door opening was on the ground, the usual uncaring and unprofessional stuff was there like drink containers on the barn isle floor, rakes and shovels strewn around, etc. So I put up the barn door entrance chain, picked up a little and started to work on a little project I am doing on my own out there. It was just me, my hound and a beautiful day. The barn operator guy arrived and took the quarantine horse out of the chicken coop for a walk. He grazed him at random places around the barn on a lead rope. So, much for quarantine there. Then it got really crazy. The guy tided the quarantined horse to his truck bumper that was parked on some grass by the barn. What do you think happened next? I ask because I believe probably everyone who reads stuff here knows what happened but he didn't understand what would come next. The horse stepped over the rope, got spooked and broke the lead rope. I think at this point I deserved some sort of award for detachment. I minded my own business and continued my project. Didn't make a sound, nothing, kept working, head down. I did hear a bunch of horn blasts from the road. Maybe that had something to do with the horse being lose. I don't know. In a while the guy reappeared with the quarantine horse that had run all over who knows where, and put it back in the chicken house. This really happened. I just kept being a boarder, not responsible, not in charge. Odd feeling but I am happy I did it all how I did. Crazy place. Not a horse area here. |
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Post by rideanotherday on Nov 2, 2016 22:28:53 GMT
Broke the lead rope and not the bumper? Huh. They got lucky.
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Post by horseguy on Nov 4, 2016 12:19:29 GMT
Broke the lead rope and not the bumper? Huh. They got lucky. It would seam from your comment that you are used to Chevys. 
This whole mess at this barn has me thinking about people and horses in general. These barn operators are dangerous, but why? Is it they don't know? Don't care? My hound is very friendly. The other day when the auction horse showed up he ran to the people as he does and they knew he was around. And then thy let weeks old kittens out of the room where they were kept. The people know he's a hunting hound, my hound grabbed a kitten and killed it. Was this ignorance or carelessness?
I have know many kinds of horse people over the years. Some are smart and ignorant of horses, and they have caused horses distress or worse out of their ignorance. I had a client, new to horses, who's husband, a horseman, bought her a nice Warmblood and a new farm to keep it. She turned her horse out into an alfalfa field for a day and it died of colic. Seemed like a good idea at the time. I would characterize her as a careless person because she cared less about learning about the equine digestive tract. What she cared about was her self image as a generous horse owner.
These barn operators are careless, with the cat, with the horses. I have known genuinely caring people who seem to be able to overcome their ignorance and even stupidity by sincerely caring about horses and animals. They are careful. They question themselves and their actions. They seek information before acting or changing a situation. I think now what I have learned about looking for a boarding barn is that making sure the operators authentically care about animals is the number one priority. I think now that that is not an easy thing to find. All the barn operators say they care, that they love horses, but what I have encountered is people too sick in their mind to care, too drunk, too greedy, and now too manically caught in their own delirious unreal image of caring. Caring is in the details, making sure the horses have sufficient water, that there are no metal objects laying around in paddocks and pastures to injure a horse, and simply cleaning the stalls in a timely manner. It's making sure the gates are properly closed, and there are working light bulbs in every stall.
These people have time and money to go buy auction horses, but not to have water available and other essentials. Like Jimmy said, it's like a Munchausen kind of mindset. Tie a horse to the bumper of a truck. Be shocked it broke lose and then be proud of the fact you captured it and saved it from being it by a passing car. Or blaming a hound and his owner for a dead kitten and feeling self righteous about that. What's puzzling for me, and I realize it is like being puzzled that the horse rescue people don't want me to train their horses, is that Karen and I combined have over 100 years of experience with horses and these people don't want us to teach them, and they consider our advice as imposing and even insulting. It comes down to caring and these people, in reality, don't care about horses. |
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Post by rideanotherday on Nov 4, 2016 13:11:12 GMT
Broke the lead rope and not the bumper? Huh. They got lucky. It would seam from your comment that you are used to Chevys.
This whole mess at this barn has me thinking about people and horses in general. These barn operators are dangerous, but why? Is it they don't know? Don't care? My hound is very friendly. The other day when the auction horse showed up he ran to the people as he does and they knew he was around. And then thy let weeks old kittens out of the room where they were kept. The people know he's a hunting hound, my hound grabbed a kitten and killed it. Was this ignorance or carelessness?
I have know many kinds of horse people over the years. Some are smart and ignorant of horses, and they have caused horses distress or worse out of their ignorance. I had a client, new to horses, who's husband, a horseman, bought her a nice Warmblood and a new farm to keep it. She turned her horse out into an alfalfa field for a day and it died of colic. Seemed like a good idea at the time. I would characterize her as a careless person because she cared less about learning about the equine digestive tract. What she cared about was her self image as a generous horse owner.
These barn operators are careless, with the cat, with the horses. I have known genuinely caring people who seem to be able to overcome their ignorance and even stupidity by sincerely caring about horses and animals. They are careful. They question themselves and their actions. They seek information before acting or changing a situation. I think now what I have learned about looking for a boarding barn is that making sure the operators authentically care about animals is the number one priority. I think now that that is not an easy thing to find. All the barn operators say they care, that they love horses, but what I have encountered is people too sick in their mind to care, too drunk, too greedy, and now too manically caught in their own delirious unreal image of caring. Caring is in the details, making sure the horses have sufficient water, that there are no metal objects laying around in paddocks and pastures to injure a horse, and simply cleaning the stalls in a timely manner. It's making sure the gates are properly closed, and there are working light bulbs in every stall.
These people have time and money to go buy auction horses, but not to have water available and other essentials. Like Jimmy said, it's like a Munchausen kind of mindset. Tie a horse to the bumper of a truck. Be shocked it broke lose and then be proud of the fact you captured it and saved it from being it by a passing car. Or blaming a hound and his owner for a dead kitten and feeling self righteous about that. What's puzzling for me, and I realize it is like being puzzled that the horse rescue people don't want me to train their horses, is that Karen and I combined have over 100 years of experience with horses and these people don't want us to teach them, and they consider our advice as imposing and even insulting. It comes down to caring and these people, in reality, don't care about horses. How did you know I used to have a Chevy??? ;P There are days when I think that people who some would consider "experienced" horsemen are pretty clueless. And yet, they look down on others who have more sense, if not the experience. That's the way of the world. However, in regards to your hound, this one falls on you. You know he's a hunter. You also KNOW that they have cats/kittens around. If he was free to roam, the fact that the kitten got let out and got killed is your fault. It's your boarding barn, but NOT your place. It's theirs. If they chose to let their kitten out of a room, when it's their place? Yeah. They should be able to do that. You are responsible for your dog and his behavior. They are not. If you are a responsible dog owner, you know what they are capable of and manage it accordingly. In this case, your experience and knowledge didn't do that poor cat any good at all. Blaming them for being ignorant is shitty. You KNOW your dog is a hunter. They clearly don't know better, but you do. It's pretty awful to act superior about your knowledge, when you basically let this happen because you didn't manage your dog. |
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Post by horseguy on Nov 4, 2016 13:51:09 GMT
Here's the deal. When I first went there to this small 5 stall barn I specifically asked about bringing dogs because I train horses to hunt. Typically at a hunt barn hounds are not allowed in a barn but are underfoot a good bit of the time in order to desensitize hunt horses. If a barn will not accommodate that, then I am not boarding there. I am not a fool, careless or inconsiderate. When or if people are uncomfortable, or for any reason, with the hound being around, I put him in the truck (Ford F-350, strong bumpers), a place he loves to sleep.
That day it was early afternoon, quiet, no one around, they arrived. Hound greets them. The chaos begins as they deal with their new horse and zero preparation for its arrival. They could have asked me to put the dog in the truck as I have many times, but no, they release weeks old kittens. By now, I just stay out of their chaos, like I watched the guy tie a horse to his bumper and said and did nothing. Agreements were made and I am keeping them. I am not responsible for their carelessness and stupidity. If that horse (in quarantine) that broke lose (potentially contaminating a large area of the farm) had been hit in the road, I'd have felt bad, as I did about the kitten, but you can't fix stupid. Like I said, agreements were made. I am keeping my part. The dead cat is on them.
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Post by rideanotherday on Nov 4, 2016 14:03:14 GMT
Here's the deal. When I first went there to this small 5 stall barn I specifically asked about bringing dogs because I train horses to hunt. Typically at a hunt barn hounds are not allowed in a barn but are underfoot a good bit of the time in order to desensitize hunt horses. If a barn will not accommodate that, then I am not boarding there. I am not a fool, careless or inconsiderate. When or if people are uncomfortable, or for any reason, with the hound being around, I put him in the truck (Ford F-350, strong bumpers), a place he loves to sleep. That day it was early afternoon, quiet, no one around, they arrived. Hound greets them. The chaos begins as they deal with their new horse and zero preparation for its arrival. They could have asked me to put the dog in the truck as I have many times, but no, they release weeks old kittens. By now, I just stay out of their chaos, like I watched the guy tie a horse to his bumper and said and did nothing. Agreements were made and I am keeping them. I am not responsible for their carelessness and stupidity. If that horse (in quarantine) that broke lose (potentially contaminating a large area of the farm) had been hit in the road, I'd have felt bad, as I did about the kitten, but you can't fix stupid. Like I said, agreements were made. I am keeping my part. The dead cat is on them. This is a much different area. Any barn I have boarded at has had strict rules about dogs. Some of the horse owners I have seen at those barns were "litigious" at best and down right nasty at worst. Having a hound around YOUR horse is one thing, because as a hunt horse he or she does need to know how to deal with a dog underfoot. If your hound hurts a horse or a person or damages property, you bear the liability. It really might be better for you to find a place that you can rent that is just you and the horses you have. |
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Post by rideforever on Nov 4, 2016 14:05:21 GMT
And honestly, most barns don't allow dogs for exactly that reason. I am happy that my barn only allows leashes dogs under specific circumstances.
I can't stand dogs that are allowed to roam all over and be destructive. If owners aren't going to maintain control over their animal, then they shouldn't be out at the barn. Just because it got chaotic, does not absolve you of responsibility. In fact, since you know better, you should do better. The experience you have gives you more responsibility, not less.
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Post by horseguy on Nov 4, 2016 15:14:25 GMT
And honestly, most barns don't allow dogs for exactly that reason. I am happy that my barn only allows leashes dogs under specific circumstances. I can't stand dogs that are allowed to roam all over and be destructive. If owners aren't going to maintain control over their animal, then they shouldn't be out at the barn. Just because it got chaotic, does not absolve you of responsibility. In fact, since you know better, you should do better. The experience you have gives you more responsibility, not less.
You say because I have more experience I have more responsibility, but they reject my experience. Where does your logic end? Do I go out and buy more water troughs so the horses have water? Do I make them a proper quarantine area? Do I buy better hay for them? Do I stand by the horse tied to the bumper to protect it? Where does my responsibility end? These people are in a limitless bubble of ignorance and defend it against reason and experience.
It's a very small barn. No one lives on the property. I am alone there 80% of the time. I train hunt horses and have permission to have the dog around. When people are there I typically put him in the truck. It worked until the chaos grew and grew. Who buys an auction horse, arrives with no place to put the horse in quarantine? The horse cooks in the sun in a trailer while they make a chicken coop into a quarantine stall and in that process of chaos, release kittens. That's my fault? It's November and the promised run-in sheds are not built. The hay they bought has no nutrition, dry & bleached. Horse runs into the road. Gates open, waters empty in this hot fall, stalls not cleaned for days, shovels and other metal objects all over the place in paddocks & pastures.
I sneak around when I am alone there and fix the most dangerous stuff for the horse's sake but I will not confront these idiots. Tie a horse to a bumper, I'm not going to look. Start a crazy quarantine process, I'm not involved. This is why other countries have licenses for instructors, trainer and managers. Americans refuse to set standards for animal care and training. Quite frankly I never though it would get this bad at this barn, but it has and they want no help. They think it's all fine. The underlying problem is the independent "suit yourself" American idea of freedom to do as you please with animals. The result is PETA and this kind of barn in the US, extremes. Sane countries establish a sane middle ground with standards. The cat ultimately died because of stupidity on several levels.
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Post by horseguy on Nov 6, 2016 14:19:10 GMT
Looking for a new barn. Turns out most are full around here. Real horse areas are south and north of here. Widening the search. The most interesting part is looking into the Hunter/Jumper barns. Their marketing approach is based in "your kid will win ribbons", and with this comes a not so subtly implied requirement that you get what you pay for in terms of winning ribbons. Money = winning. Expensive = quality. There is very little or nothing about skill in their sales pitch.
Also, interesting side bar. The operators of the farm we are leaving told me this week that I am no longer allowed to ride across the creek in the property. It's "too dangerous". This from the people who do not supply water to horses, leave gates open, and supply a steady stream of chaos. That comment was a summary of their knowledge of horses and riding. Disgusted.
pop quiz - there are two very obviously incorrect things in this picture from the prospective of traditional hunting, both have to do with the horse & rider in the foreground
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