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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 13:10:24 GMT
It looks like there is an O-ring snaffle with a drop noseband of some type. It's a corkscrew full cheek on a micklem bridle Why a corkscrew?
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 14:25:57 GMT
It's a corkscrew full cheek on a micklem bridle Why a corkscrew? She gets a little stronger in the jumping phases so after dressage, we change out of our snaffle to the corkscrew
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 14:46:26 GMT
And this is where my lack of jumping knowledge comes in...so why go to a harsher bit? Is this not a behavior that can be trained? I'm not trying to poke a bear, I really don't do jumping.
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Post by horseguy on Jul 5, 2017 15:03:04 GMT
A twist or corkscrew bit is generally in the category of a last resort bit. They exist for a reason but not a very broad reason. What is the age and history of the horse?
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 15:04:03 GMT
And this is where my lack of jumping knowledge comes in...so why go to a harsher bit? Is this not a behavior that can be trained? I'm not trying to poke a bear, I really don't do jumping. She jumps very nicely in her snaffle while I'm at home but in competition mode, she gets more excited and pulls against it. When you're out on crosscountry and they lose their focus it can get more dangerous with solid fences. The corkscrew is more of a safety precaution for competitions because it has different pressure points that make it uncomfortable for them to pull against. It's not nessarily a behavior issue. Similar to someone asking "why wear a safety vest if your horse is careful enough on crosscountry?" Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 15:06:30 GMT
A twist or corkscrew bit is generally in the category of a last resort bit. They exist for a reason but not a very broad reason. What is the age and history of the horse? 10 years old and she's shown through training level. Currently showing novice
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 15:48:49 GMT
And this is where my lack of jumping knowledge comes in...so why go to a harsher bit? Is this not a behavior that can be trained? I'm not trying to poke a bear, I really don't do jumping. She jumps very nicely in her snaffle while I'm at home but in competition mode, she gets more excited and pulls against it. When you're out on crosscountry and they lose their focus it can get more dangerous with solid fences. The corkscrew is more of a safety precaution for competitions because it has different pressure points that make it uncomfortable for them to pull against. It's not nessarily a behavior issue. Similar to someone asking "why wear a safety vest if your horse is careful enough on crosscountry?" Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it. I understand the mechanics of a corkscrew bit. Thanks for explaining. I just wanted to understand the reason for the choice.
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Post by horseguy on Jul 5, 2017 16:11:21 GMT
And this is where my lack of jumping knowledge comes in...so why go to a harsher bit? Is this not a behavior that can be trained? I'm not trying to poke a bear, I really don't do jumping. She jumps very nicely in her snaffle while I'm at home but in competition mode, she gets more excited and pulls against it. When you're out on crosscountry and they lose their focus it can get more dangerous with solid fences. The corkscrew is more of a safety precaution for competitions because it has different pressure points that make it uncomfortable for them to pull against. It's not nessarily a behavior issue. Similar to someone asking "why wear a safety vest if your horse is careful enough on crosscountry?" Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it. "She jumps very nicely in her snaffle while I'm at home"The horse knows how to jump. "... in competition mode, she gets more excited and pulls against it"Very common issue. The traditional solution would be to use a couple "throw away competitions" to train her to compete properly. By throw away, I mean paying the entrance fees, trailering her there and competing, but with no interest in winning, placing or anything but training. I used to use the Bucks Co. Horse Park unrecognized competitions for this. They are cheaper and people there understand. You go there and tell the Steward you are there to do competition training and would like to go out on xc near the end so as to not hold up the flow on the course. Also tell the Starter (if his name is Jim, tell him Bob Wood says hello) that you will be training on the courses with a few circles in front of some jumps and your may need some room behind you. Jim will know exactly what to do. You leave the starting box in a relaxed manner like its just a trail ride, which it is. If your horse sees a jump and begins to charge it, you circle. keep your hands low and be on and off contact, do not give her a bit to lean against. Do as many circles in front of a jump as you need to get her to jump like she is at home. Yell over to the fence judge to please be patient. The fence judges typically are less experienced and may not have seen this competition training before. This is basic settle-commit jumping. Teach your horse that you alone make the decision when to commit to a jump. She is committing on her own, which is never good. Also, at the Horse Park there are many other xc jumps around and along the way to the next designated jump on the competition course for that day. I will mess with a horse's mind and kinda point them at a jump 10 to 20 strides out that has nothing to do with the day's course. I am baiting the horse to commit and charge, and when they do I point them at the real jump. This creates doubt in their mind about if they know what's going on, and that causes them to focus more on the rider's directing. Settle-commit. "... out on crosscountry and they lose their focus it can get more dangerous with solid fences"They do if they are not well trained and don't know their job. Buying a bit to substitute for training has consequences. If a horse is in anyway "dangerous" jumping solid fences, then the fences are too big/difficult, or the rider is not skilled enough for the jumps. Consider moving down a level or two until you are competing safely. "The corkscrew is more of a safety precaution for competitions because it has different pressure points that make it uncomfortable for them to pull against"Introducing discomfort is always counterproductive. The horse was excited and now you add in discomfort to her excitement and you expect greater compliance to your commands? Might work a little in the short run but eventually you have a horse that hates cross country, among other things and different ptroblems. You'd have to explain to me what the "different pressure points" are. Snaffles work the same whether they are smooth and fat or thin and twisted. The twist snaffles can be used effectively in very, very skilled hands that have the precision of a brain surgeon. In a situation where a horse is pulling against the bit, I already know that the rider's skills regarding off contact to on contact are limited. In hands that cannot go off contact much off the time combined with brief precise seconds of on contact, a twist bit can act like a chainsaw on the horses bars. Long term effects of this include loss of blood flow to the bars, loss of neuro sensory capacity in the mouth (hard mouth) and an angry, or sometimes dull, horse. "Similar to someone asking "why wear a safety vest if your horse is careful enough on crosscountry?" Better to have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it."Confusing safety equipment with basic aids like a bit is inappropriate. There is an old saying, "Bits are not brakes". When people use harsh bits or other constraining equipment to accomplish safety, something is very wrong. Your horse needs some basic competition training. This includes everything from tacking up in a parking area with a hundred new smelling horses, horses running lose between the trailers because someone can't tie a knot, to the smell of the burger stand and the sound of the announcer loud speakers. It's a totally new environment. you cannot just throw a horse into it without proper introduction and training. Simply buying a bit is a short cut that will do more long term harm than good. Horses want to unify with riders. It is a form of equine comfort seeking. Anything that gets between your horse seeking the comfort and you is counterproductive. Comfortable horses win.
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 17:42:04 GMT
She is very well trained with plenty of experiance so I'm not sure how well your advice will hold up. Last season, she would refuse fences in her snaffle. This season, she's had multiple wins at novice in her corkscrew further qualifying us for AECS. We were first at Loudoun finishing out of 22 competitors with a score of 22.0. We also won at waredaca on a 28.0. This past weekend we finished in 3rd with a 27.0 out of 20 competitors. I believe this change between seasons resulted in us getting to know each other and understand when to push her and when to hold her.
I think our crosscountry has improved immensely and she loves her job and does it well. I work with a team of vets, chiropractors, and farriers to rule out pain and discomfort. She's never had problems racing at fences. I only need to gain her focus after fences where she darts forward in excitement. Very rarely do I need to give a strong feel on the reins anymore as she understands my aids and how I ride much better than when I first got her.
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 17:50:10 GMT
I am with Horseguy on this one. The best bit is a "bit" of training.
If you are considering a bit as safety equipment it is time to donate some entry fees. Barrel racers do it, cutting horse riders do it. When horses get competition-wise, it's better to nip it in the bud.
The problem with going to more extreme bits and hardware is you eventually run out of options. I'm not a jumper, but I understand bit mechanics and training.
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 17:51:43 GMT
I am with Horseguy on this one. The best bit is a "bit" of training. If you are considering a bit as safety equipment it is time to donate some entry fees. Barrel racers do it, cutting horse riders do it. When horses get competition-wise, it's better to nip it in the bud. The problem with going to more extreme bits and hardware is you eventually run out of options. I'm not a jumper, but I understand bit mechanics and training. And horseguy will attest that I don't always agree with him. =)
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 17:54:48 GMT
I am with Horseguy on this one. The best bit is a "bit" of training. If you are considering a bit as safety equipment it is time to donate some entry fees. Barrel racers do it, cutting horse riders do it. When horses get competition-wise, it's better to nip it in the bud. The problem with going to more extreme bits and hardware is you eventually run out of options. I'm not a jumper, but I understand bit mechanics and training. And horseguy will attest that I don't always agree with him. =) That might be true in some cases but that does not correctly reflect my horse
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 18:03:25 GMT
And horseguy will attest that I don't always agree with him. =) That might be true in some cases but that does not correctly reflect my horse Sup, you know your horse better than we do, but from your comments and your picture you got accurate feedback. There's no shame in needing to train in competition. Horseguy is right, recreating the same things that make your horse do what you describe with "She's never had problems racing at fences. I only need to gain her focus after fences where she darts forward in excitement." (your exact words) is only possible at shows. Now, we might have some terminology differences here, but it's a thin line between a horse that races ad a horse that darts forward in excitement.
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Post by Sup on Jul 5, 2017 18:35:46 GMT
That might be true in some cases but that does not correctly reflect my horse Sup, you know your horse better than we do, but from your comments and your picture you got accurate feedback. There's no shame in needing to train in competition. Horseguy is right, recreating the same things that make your horse do what you describe with "She's never had problems racing at fences. I only need to gain her focus after fences where she darts forward in excitement." (your exact words) is only possible at shows. Now, we might have some terminology differences here, but it's a thin line between a horse that races ad a horse that darts forward in excitement. Thank you for your advice. I'll take it into consideration
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Post by horseguy on Jul 5, 2017 19:21:10 GMT
I am with Horseguy on this one. The best bit is a "bit" of training. If you are considering a bit as safety equipment it is time to donate some entry fees. Barrel racers do it, cutting horse riders do it. When horses get competition-wise, it's better to nip it in the bud. The problem with going to more extreme bits and hardware is you eventually run out of options . I'm not a jumper, but I understand bit mechanics and training.
I spent a good bit of time explaining the training issue but this rider's horse is already trained. Suit yourself.
The future of American riding is very bleak.
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