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Post by Jlynn on Jun 28, 2017 21:53:51 GMT
Someone brought up the subject of working a horse on a flag rather than a cow - and I understand how that is useful, but I have some questions (and keep in mind that although I have ridden a really slow cutting horse, and have worked cattle a little bit, I have no experience with it).
So, if you are working a flag and controlling the flag from the back of the horse, won't the (good, sensitive) horse start to read you and not the flag? Kind of like when you start thinking canter or stop before you cue for the canter and the horse canters or stops. And wouldn't that start to be counter productive?
And - don't good cutting horses read the cattle? I found that if I focused on the cow, I was always late and could barely stay on the horse, but if I just focused on staying centered, I could mostly stay centered.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 29, 2017 0:15:32 GMT
Someone brought up the subject of working a horse on a flag rather than a cow - and I understand how that is useful, but I have some questions (and keep in mind that although I have ridden a really slow cutting horse, and have worked cattle a little bit, I have no experience with it). So, if you are working a flag and controlling the flag from the back of the horse, won't the (good, sensitive) horse start to read you and not the flag? Kind of like when you start thinking canter or stop before you cue for the canter and the horse canters or stops. And wouldn't that start to be counter productive? And - don't good cutting horses read the cattle? I found that if I focused on the cow, I was always late and could barely stay on the horse, but if I just focused on staying centered, I could mostly stay centered. It's a valid question. Yes, horses read cattle, and there is no substitute for cattle work. But the flag is a big help. Some horses are not as hot on a flag as on a cow. The flag does not have a lot of read. Yes, you have to resist telegraphing to the horse. But he will watch it. the trick is to stay out of his way, and let him make his own mistakes. Having to hustle up if he's late is a good way for him to learn to watch. If you do it all for him, he won't watch the flag, or the cow, and just wait for you. Yes, it's a good idea to stay in the middle of your horse. But always always watch the cow, or flag. I don't know why I always want to look down at my horse. I mean, he was there the last time I checked! The trainer's job is to keep the horse in good working position. Making sure he stops straight, and comes back through a turn. That is where the flag is invaluable. You can make the horse wait, while you fix position, then let the flag take him once he is set up. The best use is to use the flag to get the horse to back through a turn. A lot of trainers stop with the flag, make it go back the other way, and instead of letting the horse turn with it, keep the horse backing, as far as you need to, then let him turn. This really coils a spring in the horse, and keeps him correct. It is very easy for cutting horses to get sloppy if this attention to detail isn't used.
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Post by horseguy on Jun 29, 2017 1:46:33 GMT
This is the essence of horse training, I feel. Demands focused on detail is the difference between a working horse and a hobby pet horse. We've talked about horses that don't have enough focus on detail to stand to be mounted. That's nowhere, not even in the front door of training. If we do not demand a level of detailed focus and, as Jimmy says, and allow the horse to make mistakes so the horse can learn, they will always be the dull knife. Who wants that?
I know, a lot of people settle for that, but with all we go through, feeding, training, caring, treating, why settle?
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 11:04:50 GMT
Another really good reason to use a flag vs. cows is the cost. Keeping cows is expensive, plus cows eventually get "numb". They quit reacting to the horse. Buffalo are another option for working the horse, as are goats. They still have a cost and not everyone has the facilities to handle buffalo in particular. Buffalo have the advantage that they won't get used to horses.
Like Jimmy said, working the flag allows the trainer to work on positioning both for the horse and the rider. The trainer can interrupt to talk the rider through the movements. There's a lot of training advantage in that.
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