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Post by Queen Troll on Jun 29, 2017 14:14:50 GMT
Bob, what is your problem with figure 8 nosebands? Besides the fact that you believe that they are "trendy".
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Post by horseguy on Jun 29, 2017 14:54:24 GMT
We want our horses to be relaxed. A relaxed horse carries his bit comfortably (read jimmy's post on the spade bit in the Vaquero method) even if circumstances might move it sometimes, the comfortable horse will place it optimally in it's mouth if the bit is balanced in a way he like it or helps him.. If he feels his bit is "part of his uniform" so to speak and is comfortable in that uniform there is no need for a nose band.
Picking a bit based on how it sets the head, or "gives more brakes" or anything but an aid to balance is uncomfortable for a horse. Figure 8's are very often used to compensate for either the wrong bit or a lack of time allowing the horse to "find" the bit's comfort.
Another problem today is instructors do not teach, and many do not know the correct variations and employment of the reins. Direct rein, leading rein, rein of opposition, etc. These all involve balancing the horse. Restrictive head gear like figure 8's restrict the use of reins. For example, the use of a leading rein with a rein of opposition, I feel, is clogged up by the restriction of nose bands.
Lastly, when I was in 1st grade we had to sit at attention with hands folded on the desk, often for very long periods of time. That is unnatural, muscles tighten, itches occur. You have to be able to move a little to be comfortable in your seat. Likewise, general comfort from restrictive tack is like my 1st grade experience. It's uncomfortable and teaches very little.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 29, 2017 15:11:05 GMT
For some perspective on nose bands and such, Will Simpson, of Olympic show jumping fame, trains right across the road from me.
I have visited with him several times. I was surprised to see him schooling young horses in simple loose ring snaffles with western split reins and no nose band of any kind, and no running martingale.
He was obviously proud of that when I mentioned it. "Light as feather" he said as he lifted a rein and the nose dropped.
Another grand pix rider around here is from Chile. His take was when his horses advance, and you are dealing with a lot of power, then you need a little help with leverage or nose bands whatever. I will have to take his word for that.
If anyone is familiar with Jimmy Williams, his horses jumped with just what is now called a jumping hackamore, or just a thong in their mouth, Indian style. Or nothing at all.
What I see is that at the lower levels there are more leverage and more contraptions on inexperienced horses being used. Where in my opinion these young horses are being taught to ride into and take hold of pressure way too soon. If you have a six year old jumping three feet or less, in a crank nose band and a gag bit, martingales, draw reins, etc. there is something wrong with the training paradigm.
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Post by horseguy on Jul 4, 2017 20:18:30 GMT
I wanted to follow up on this topic, not so much about the specific equipment but on the need for relaxation, which equipment can impede or restrict.
Here is a video of some discus throwers. These are strong fit guys, but if they are not fluid and have the relaxation to achieve the optimum rhythm throughout their entire throw, they cannot get the distance they otherwise would.
It is the same with a horse jumping or riding to a hit on a ball in a polo game or I suspect in western sports like roping. To achieve optimum performance, effective movement is the first requirement. With horses and other athletes rhythm and balance along with strength make up the elements of movement. Equipment can be restrictive and this has an impact on rhythm. It also can impact balance in some cases, like with poorly used draw reins.
Less is more when riding a horse. Every contraption you put on a horse to do something specific always has an other-side-of-the-coin effect. The figure 8 might place the bit in the horse's mouth more precisely but if a side effect is tightening up his jaw and thus the neck and then the spine, it's not worth it. Very rarely is equipment the solution to a problem. I believe equipment is used increasingly to solve problems wit horses because people are unwilling to take the time required to "do it right" with simple equipment. You can buy a figure 8 nose band but you cannot buy time. I think this is what's driving the equipment solution trend.
I have spent a lot of hours riding hard over frozen terrain. Thankfully, I have been on talented horses most of the time. When things get tricky on frozen slopes, for example, you realize the horse must have complete unimpeded range of motion to save a fall. Nanoseconds matter in these difficult times. Heads twist, shoulders drop and heave, necks contort to allow a fore leg to move in a necessary way to permit a recovery from a close fall. It all happens so quickly and you feel a rush of athleticism and you are glad you left that standing martingale off. Your horse saved your butt.
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