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Post by rideanotherday on Jan 6, 2016 19:27:40 GMT
Don't blame the vet for reading your client like a book. She bought a horse and now she feels responsible and wants to do what's best for the horse...which is making his life as pain free as possible. That won't make him useful, but it will make her feel better ... Horse dealers and others who take advantage of a person haven't changed at all. There might be more of them around though. Does it make the horse feel better or the owner? I horse on pain killers that will not move around to graze is, in my view, not feeling better at all. On the other hand, the owner feels (incorrectly I think) that she is doing all she can for the horse. She feels satisfied that she is a good horse owner. That's a big change from only a few decades ago. Not only did people want a useful horse years ago, they also felt a horse's life of chronic pain was not caring for a horse, and that it was selfish to keep it alive for one's own gratification. As for blaming the vet, I do. In what you write I read that a horse dealer and a vet are held to the same cultural standard, which is let the buyer be ware. Vets should be held to a higher standard. They are hired as professionals to give professional advise and service, not to push drugs that have little or no hope of a cure or improvement. Telling a client that a crippled navicular horse would become "lightly rideable" as a result of medications is crazy talk. If such a cure was available, news of it would spread through the horse would like wildfire. I do have some blame for the owner for not researching this more. Vets are people too. I have pretty low estimation of most vets anyway. I've had the good fortune to meet some really great ones. On the other hand, especially with small animals, I firmly believe that they are just out to get the dollar out of your pocket and into theirs. Specifically, this is shown by over vaccination and pain management. Most people do NOT do any kind of research on what the animal really needs and what any of the current (or novel) therapies will be able to accomplish. I meant what I wrote. It makes HER feel better. I have no idea if the horse does without monitoring myself.
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Post by jacki on Jan 7, 2016 0:34:14 GMT
"On the other hand, especially with small animals, I firmly believe that they are just out to get the dollar out of your pocket and into theirs. Specifically, this is shown by over vaccination and pain management." -- Sad, but not surprising. I think we over-vaccinate our kids, and there are a lot of overly-medicated people out there!
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Post by horseguy on Mar 9, 2016 15:15:18 GMT
The topic A definition of "on the bit" got me thinking about other common misconceptions in contemporary horsemanship. We don't have to look much further than George Morris's 1971 book Hunter Seat Equitation, that launched a new era in American riding, to find innovations like the crest release, the 2 point with 3 points and other equestrian pop culture riding ideas that have remade the U.S into a second rate international competitor. I was 25 years old when this classic Hunter Seat Equitation showed up on bookstore shelves. Since then local bookstore and chains like Boarders and Barnes & Noble have gone out of business or become websites. Friend has become a verb, and the primary gender riding horses has shifted for male to female. Through all this change, Morris has survived and prospered. He has a new best selling book and the reviews of his other books are all 5 star. While I compare Morris to lite beer and Justin Bieber, almost every one else believes he is America's leading authority on horseback riding. Pat Parelli enjoys an equally prominent status with regard to horse training, both are equally responsible for the undermining of American horsemanship standards. Why? I think because our American culture was very fluid and changing in 1971. We went through Viet Nam, our first military loss, the generations split, racial divides came to the fore and women stepped forward to assume an equal role with men. Massive cultural changes all at once, and Morris caught that huge wave of change. Similarly, years later Parelli demonstrated a similarly unique ability to pander to contemporary horse owners with his combination of celebrity and oversimplification. In 1971 when Morris's first book came out, I was a young apprentice, then journeyman trainer trying to gather insights, education and skills to add to my early training with a U.S. Army rider. At that time, Morris's ideas seemed shallow and incomplete. To the post WW2 booming economy consumer, however, Morris's ideas and method were easily conveyed and implemented. They seemed to work just fine for student riders who knew little or nothing of horses, and more importantly had no grasp whatsoever of what a horse was capable of accomplishing. That's why I call Morris lite beer, because if all you ever drank in the way of beer was lite beer, then of course you'd think it was just fine. But if you ever had a glass of fresh Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale, a beer type that has been evolving since the 16th century, you might think lite beer was more like the reason you put bedding in hamster cages. The most pervasive of Morris's flawed short cut "principles" is the crest release. Morris admitted decades later that his primary goal with this "new release" (formally called a rider error) was to get more people riding and more riders jumping sooner than was possible by the traditional military seat method that he had learned. So much for good intentions. Morris, I assume, knew that in a jump a rider can be unified with the horses movement, which required substantial balance and timing skills, or the rider can be ahead of that motion and lastly, a rider can be behind that movement. Those are the three possibilities for a rider jumping a horse. The traditional Military or Balanced Seat method was to learn to stay in unity of motion and balance with your horse while standing in the irons (the 2 point) so that you could follow your horse's balancing motion of their neck with the reins, called following hands. Morris knew, as all riders knew, that developing a stable balanced position with the lower body in a classic 2 point took time, athletic ability and good instruction. The cultural mindset at the time didn't want to hear about years of development. They wanted to get on a horse as if it were a motorcycle and jump. The option of jumping with following hands from a stable 2 point became harder and harder to sell. That left the two other possibilities, jumping with the rider ahead or behind the horse's motion. Morris picked being ahead, told riders to lean forward and place their hands on the crest of the horse's neck, thus creating a very stable 3 point stance, the points being the two feet in the irons and the third the hands on the neck. Gone was the jumping strap, a belt around the horse's neck, that the Army used that would slip up and down and sideways on the neck forcing the balance into the rider's feet. Gone was the timing required to push up and out of the saddle with the legs, replaced by merely leaning forward onto the neck and pulling rather than pushing the butt out of the saddle. Gone was any real need for core strength to hold a dynamic jumping position. Riding students old and young, fit and weak, agile or not could now jump, but there was a catch. Morris's crest release only works on the flat, in good footing and hopefully with jumps that fall down when struck as the result of a rider mistake. Since Morris's book we've seen a growth of arena riders who show, and a decline of terrain riders who fox hunt or are eventing riders. In other words, gone are riders who can truly jump a horse, ride over any terrain in any weather and every footing. What Morris has left us is a "new tradition" of the American arena rider. In spite of all the 5 star book reviews and his cult like following, his the customer based convenience has almost completely replaced common sense quality riding. I don't think it's been worth it.
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Post by rideanotherday on Mar 9, 2016 16:38:43 GMT
This is the first thing I want you to read Horseguy ....I think you are right. Read it again. I think you are right.
Now, I have never read George Morris. I *have* watched Pat a bit, at least enough to know that there's a whole lot of merchandising going on.
Personally, I'm a craft beer drinker. Light beer is what my dad calls "canoe beer" because it's near water.
I think that beating up on Pat/George is never going to win anyone into riding correctly. The negativity on what GM has done to the sport of horse riding that you won't seem to let go of (right or wrong doesn't matter for this part) is only going to make people who read what you are talking about dismiss your words as sour grapes.
I'm going to use a story that Rideforever told me (might be worded a touch differently, but she'll forgive me). There was a lady in for lessons at the barn Rideforever was an assistant trainer at. Main trainer was telling the lady "heels down"...and the lady just couldn't grasp it. Rideforever took over for a lesson and said "point your toes up". All of a sudden, here's the lady with her heels down. In practice, they said the same thing, just used different terms. Sometimes you have to reword your message to be successful in people "getting it".
Your message is, at least for me, sometimes lost in the negativity. Comparing riding styles can be really helpful as a learning tool, but when you consistently call out someone as the reason why we as a nation fail as riders...he's a contributor, but not the reason. To wholesale lay it at the doors of particular people is not putting responsibility where it belongs, I feel. Individuals are responsible for their own behaviors and their own success or failure. George and Pat aren't the only people out there instructing. Now, I think that there should be a bit more oversight of trainers in general - some sort of licensing. Getting Americans in general to accept that? Probably like herding cats. I think it would be worthwhile though.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 9, 2016 19:50:29 GMT
The most pervasive of Morris's flawed short cut "principles" is the crest release. Morris admitted decades later that his primary goal with this "new release" (formally called a rider error) was to get more people riding and more riders jumping sooner than was possible by the traditional military seat method that he had learned. So much for good intentions. Morris, I assume, knew that in a jump a rider can be unified with the horses movement, which required substantial balance and timing skills, or the rider can be ahead of that motion and lastly, a rider can be behind that movement. Those are the three possibilities for a rider jumping a horse. The traditional Military or Balanced Seat method was to learn to stay in unity of motion and balance with your horse while standing in the irons (the 2 point) so that you could follow your horse's balancing motion of their neck with the reins, called following hands. Morris knew, as all riders knew, that developing a stable balanced position with the lower body in a classic 2 point took time, athletic ability and good instruction. The cultural mindset at the time didn't want to hear about years of development. They wanted to get on a horse as if it were a motorcycle and jump. The option of jumping with following hands from a stable 2 point became harder and harder to sell. That left the two other possibilities, jumping with the rider ahead or behind the horse's motion. Morris picked being ahead, told riders to lean forward and place their hands on the crest of the horse's neck, thus creating a very stable 3 point stance, the points being the two feet in the irons and the third the hands on the neck.
I appreciate your concern about my social skills. I edited my post to bring it down to the actual riding aspect or example. That is meant to help riders appreciate how and why the crest release became the standard.
As for the other paragraphs I think it is useful, even if some might hear it as sour grapes, for riders to have a context for the information they learn in lessons. Remarkably, the American English riding context essentially comes down to George Morris, although most students by now have never heard of him. Being old has few advantages and one of those few is perspective. In Asian cultures the longer perspective that age brings is valued, but here our contemporary youth oriented culture dismisses it. My feeling on that is young people have a lot to earn and some help from experienced elders can save time and energy.
What is unique to Morris is it's rare that one human being can so broadly impact anything, a sport, a government, a style, etc. but Morris has. I don't know him, but people who do say he is a real gentleman. I also know he was a very well trained and successful jumping competitor, and later a successful coach. He's been very successful financially and has many fans. Summed up, he's the American dream, but even the most superficial analysis of his body of work after retiring from competition has three hallmarks. They are shallow and profitable, but third and more importantly is destructive. That's not sour grapes, but you are welcome to make it into that if you like. It's fact.
For me Morris is a study in following the masses, trends and fashion. He was just as swept up by his status as he was the creation of it. He was a mirror of his times filled with change, often for the sake of change, and a cultural inclination toward "easy". Morris made it easy. My complaint is he also knew the cost of his changes, having been trained by Gordon Wright a top Military Seat instructor. But the cost was not his to pay but rather American riding student's burden, on and on. That annoys me.
Years ago he posted on an internet forum and took the heat pretty well there but deflected a lot of the blame for destructive practices like the crest release toward others of his generation. How kind. His usual response was that he was well meaning and never meant his techniques to become the "only way". He also wrote like that in his Practical Horseman column from time to time years ago. To that, I and others suggested that he write a book entitled something like "Ride Like Me" based on his Military Seat training and competition riding. This at least would supply future students some reference or contrast to his lite beer famous Hunter Seat Equitation. Didn't happen as far as I know. I believe that when you are destructive, especially on Morris's scale, you have an obligation to set the record straight, even if it makes your past look a little too "merchandizing". I fantasize that he has indeed written that book "Ride Like Me" but has it in his will that it should be published after his death. OK, we'll see.
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