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unity
Jul 17, 2016 11:39:01 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 17, 2016 11:39:01 GMT
The challenge in teaching riding is to create unity between man and beast. One level of the teaching process is bio-mechanical, a four legged creature carries a two legged creature, which has inherent conflicts. Learning to ride well requires that a person put aside their human idea of movement and allow a more powerful very different means to be their experience of movement. Done well, it is not a surrendering but a joining. The rider must let the horse move them in every way. In doing so, the human feels very directly how their body moves in an infinite number of centered ways.
This experience of unity goes beyond motion. Some riders reach the next level beyond movement, which is the experience of the horse's intention to move. Once we feel the horse's intention prior to movement, we can work with motion before it begins. It then becomes not the horse's movement or our own, but a unified singular shared movement conceived together and initiated together. Riding is then a uniquely mutual experience between two very different beings.
I taught this unity for many years. Very often, like with soldiers retuning from war or the locked up boys in my equine therapy program, my students lacked unity within their own being, so first this had to be restored before they could go outward to experience unity with another being. A riding instructor teaching riding skills is required very often to unify the student, their mind, body and feelings, if the instructor's goal is their student's reaching mastery. Occasionally a student would realize that the work of riding well was transformational, as is the mastery of anything.
We see this concept of mastery on multiple levels more in martial arts than in riding instruction. Martial arts masters make no apologies to students who come thinking they understand when they do not. Many will strip a new student of their acquired higher belts and make them begin again as a novice. Not so in teaching riding. Student in the process of learning to ride, which I believe is more challenging in terms of mastery than martial arts, will not tolerate being reduced to their actual reality so they can begin again with a greater potential to truly master riding. Instead the standard for riding instruction is lower and allows for greater level of illusion.
Teaching true mastery of riding requires the instructor to cause, show and otherwise get the riding student to reach the level of experiencing the horse's intention and the rider being in that intention together with the horse. This is unity. This is true riding. It is very difficult to teach while allowing illusions in the student. This is why martial arts instructors will remove a student's black belt and give them a white belt.
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unity
Jul 18, 2016 18:11:26 GMT
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 18, 2016 18:11:26 GMT
I'm not sure I understand the context of your statement about an instructor removing a black belt from a atudent and giving them a white one. Could you explain further?
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unity
Jul 18, 2016 20:15:47 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 18, 2016 20:15:47 GMT
I'm not sure I understand the context of your statement about an instructor removing a black belt from a atudent and giving them a white one. Could you explain further? In most martial arts a beginning novice student wears a white belt with their Gi (robe).
The levels have colors up t black and degrees of black.
Top masters often require that new students begin at the bottom regardless of any belts they might have acquired under the teaching of other teachers. I do not believe it is so much an ego thing with the masters as much as each has their own tradition and curriculum. In the curriculum learning is very cumulative "stone placed on stone" therefore it is probably a good idea to begin with a new teacher at the very beginning. I have known several higher level black belts who have gladly begun again with a different highly respected master wearing a white belt.
I have tried variations on this with students but almost all have rejected the concept in riding, which might be a lack of respect or maybe too much self esteemed.
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unity
Jul 18, 2016 20:19:36 GMT
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 18, 2016 20:19:36 GMT
Ah. Makes much more sense now. I have been through 2 different schools for martial arts now, one mixed and one karate (when I lived in Japan).
Just as a side note...the word "dan" in Japanese means "step". Which implies that once you have achieved a black belt, you may finally begin to learn.
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unity
Jul 18, 2016 21:35:50 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 18, 2016 21:35:50 GMT
My biggest question is "What do people feel?" with regard to:
This is very Ray Hunt and it is very polo. In a polo game there is no time to react. Effective play is based completely on anticipation. Therefore, a rider along with their horse must immediately and instantaneously move as one as the play changes. It would be like being in a hockey game tied to another person. Without the ability to act from "one mind" in any given moment, there is conflicting movement between two skaters on the ice tied together, or in this case between horse and rider. The faster the process, the greater the requirement fro horse and rider to be singular at the level of initial intention and not in opposition with your horse and visa versa. There are other equally fast moving equestrian sports where this is a requirement. Hunting fast through the woods is one.
There is no time for "a conversation" in some horse sports. In cross country jumping there is time. You can ride your horse to a jump and the horse doesn't like something about it. You feel that from your horse and respond. The horse then responds to your response. It's a back and forth that hopefully ends in a way you both feel good about the result before the takeoff.
In polo there is no time for that conversation. I suppose the same would have been true for a cavalry trooper in a battle. Therefore, with no time to go back and forth, it falls to the rider to listen to the horse and to feel the step before step one. It is from there in that instant of intention that effective fast sport riding begins.
So what do readers here feel about this? I can tell you that having trained polo horses and hunt horses, that some horses communicate on this level of real time unity better than others. Some let you know their intention quite clearly. Can you feel this in your horse? In other horses? I've had to cull out horses from polo that simply would not tell me what they intended. On the other extreme, there are horses that will tell you in a 1/10th of a second, "I think I want to do it this way, wait, maybe I want to do it the other way, or possibly this different way". These tend to be very gifted quick horses with too many options. Have you ever ridden a horse like that? Keeping square zero (to use Ray Hunt's phrase) a secret or having too many square zeros at once are what a horse trainer has to move into mutual resonance with a horse if they both are to be effective in putting together unified singular shared movement conceived together and initiated together.
This is unity beyond the basics of physical unified movement between horse and rider.
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 15:16:16 GMT
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 19, 2016 15:16:16 GMT
I don't find unity in riding nearly so esoteric. I agree unity is a riding partnership and is a conversation between horse and rider. The rider must utilize timing, balance, rhythm and feel as well as a thorough understanding of the mechanics of how and when horses move. Some people do this instinctively and some have to learn it. There are exercises that help teach this. One of the most basic is simply having the rider call out when a particular hoof is leaving the ground or when it is hitting the ground (foot flight and foot fall). Both are important to "when" a horse is cued for movements. You can only affect the hoof as it's leaving the ground. Most horses have learned to work with their riders and follow through with the cue regardless on the next possible time to follow the rider's cues. A lot of riders never notice the wait. The basic or average rider doesn't know or care (sometimes both) that there is an ideal time to cue.
Knowing how a horse moves, the mechanics of the foot falls within a gait, where the movements originate from. Some riders are instinctual and they literally ride by feel and the seat of their pants. Some riders have taught themselves how to effectively communicate to the horse even though it wasn't perfectly natural to begin with. Some riders have the best of both - that they have an instinctual ability to feel the when, but they are dedicated to the craft of horsemanship and have also learned the mechanics of what the horse is doing, and by learning that become more effective riders.
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 16:52:49 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 19, 2016 16:52:49 GMT
I like the way Ray Hunt put it. His principle of square zero being before square one in riding is simple and clear. The line between square one and square zero is between biomechanics and intention. We can ride from either place, and a very well trained rider can put in a very good performance on the square one level of mechanics, can cue precisely and get effective movement.
But that method is not the highest level of riding, and it is time consuming in the sense that, as I explained, in sports like polo there is no time for the back and forth inherent at the square one mechanical method. I would say that riding from square zero, where intention is the basis of motion not mechanics, is more practical and safer when the circumstances are risky, and practical and safe are not esoteric at all.
The question is, I think, how far does a rider want to go into being conscious of how a horse thinks and acts? Some people want to be a passenger and some a pilot.
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 18:11:20 GMT
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 19, 2016 18:11:20 GMT
Humans and horses are completely capable of complex and instantaneous communication with each other- such as in polo or other sports. That's why we practice at slower speeds, so that the movements during competition are almost without thought. The thinking part of the communication comes during practices and training.
Proper prior preparation prevents piss poor performance. As a rider, as a horseman we practice, both our own craft and the skills of the horse. That work, the mechanics, the fundamentals are what allow the "square zero" idea that you are touting. It doesn't just happen. There's work involved and to remove the mechanics and fundamental skills, indeed the practice of being an effective rider does a disservice to the work involved.
Drills, practice, time, work, dedication. That is how you get unity. That is the same in any sport. How do you think Aaron Rogers can throw "hail Mary" passes that actually connect? The sense of when and where his receivers will be does not come without time spent. Just as in horsemanship. It is time spent on a horse and with a horse. And whether your knowledge of the mechanics of when to apply a cue comes from simply riding a horse, or because you are a student of the craft of horsemanship and dedicate time to not just learning the what, but the how and the WHY of riding, that does not remove the skill nor mean that you are not in unity with the horse.
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 20:18:26 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 19, 2016 20:18:26 GMT
Humans and horses are completely capable of complex and instantaneous communication with each other- such as in polo or other sports. That's why we practice at slower speeds, so that the movements during competition are almost without thought. The thinking part of the communication comes during practices and training. Proper prior preparation prevents piss poor performance. As a rider, as a horseman we practice, both our own craft and the skills of the horse. That work, the mechanics, the fundamentals are what allow the "square zero" idea that you are touting. It doesn't just happen. There's work involved and to remove the mechanics and fundamental skills, indeed the practice of being an effective rider does a disservice to the work involved. Drills, practice, time, work, dedication. That is how you get unity. That is the same in any sport. How do you think Aaron Rogers can throw "hail Mary" passes that actually connect? The sense of when and where his receivers will be does not come without time spent. Just as in horsemanship. It is time spent on a horse and with a horse. And whether your knowledge of the mechanics of when to apply a cue comes from simply riding a horse, or because you are a student of the craft of horsemanship and dedicate time to not just learning the what, but the how and the WHY of riding, that does not remove the skill nor mean that you are not in unity with the horse. I agree with a lot off what you are saying. I do not agree with the comparison with other non-equestrian sports. In horse sports, the horse is the dominant physical energy. The human has to manage, control, illicit, focus and otherwise direct that more powerful energy that has a will of its own. This is unique to equestrian sports. You write that the "work, the mechanics, the fundamentals are what allow the "square zero" idea". I am not sure I would use the word "allow". Giving a horse biomechanical cues and achieving mechanical unity with a horse can lead to the potential of discovery of the next level of connection that I am calling intention and Ray Hunt calls square zero, but the requirement to get there with a horse is not the result of work on the level of biomechanics. It is the result of feel or consciousness. I have known many equestrian competitors who are biomechanical masters, ultimate technicians but have very little feel. They cannot use there advanced physical abilities to discover and connect with a horse's intention before movement. As a result, they become masters of square one. But I feel that this is the "hard way". The easy way is to get to the awareness or feel of intention and collaborate there. Form the movement with the horse before it begins. It's not that difficult if you have the right horse to teach you. Once learned with a sensitive communicative horse, a rider can find unity on the level of intention with other horses, and after years an experienced rider can find it with most. It's better, simpler and in the end less demanding of both the horse and rider to form motion at the level of intention. And yes, there are people born with this ability but they cannot explain it. It can be explained. It would be great if someone would offer an example of feeling this pre-movement place of intention and we could explore how to use it. Lastly, you write, " ... to remove the mechanics and fundamental skills, indeed the practice of being an effective rider does a disservice to the work involved." I am not suggesting removing that work, only going beyond it, which in a practical sense is to go deeper and end up in front of it. |
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 20:52:21 GMT
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 19, 2016 20:52:21 GMT
Humans and horses are completely capable of complex and instantaneous communication with each other- such as in polo or other sports. That's why we practice at slower speeds, so that the movements during competition are almost without thought. The thinking part of the communication comes during practices and training. Proper prior preparation prevents piss poor performance. As a rider, as a horseman we practice, both our own craft and the skills of the horse. That work, the mechanics, the fundamentals are what allow the "square zero" idea that you are touting. It doesn't just happen. There's work involved and to remove the mechanics and fundamental skills, indeed the practice of being an effective rider does a disservice to the work involved. Drills, practice, time, work, dedication. That is how you get unity. That is the same in any sport. How do you think Aaron Rogers can throw "hail Mary" passes that actually connect? The sense of when and where his receivers will be does not come without time spent. Just as in horsemanship. It is time spent on a horse and with a horse. And whether your knowledge of the mechanics of when to apply a cue comes from simply riding a horse, or because you are a student of the craft of horsemanship and dedicate time to not just learning the what, but the how and the WHY of riding, that does not remove the skill nor mean that you are not in unity with the horse. I agree with a lot off what you are saying. I do not agree with the comparison with other non-equestrian sports. In horse sports, the horse is the dominant physical energy. The human has to manage, control, illicit, focus and otherwise direct that more powerful energy that has a will of its own. This is unique to equestrian sports. You write that the "work, the mechanics, the fundamentals are what allow the "square zero" idea". I am not sure I would use the word "allow". Giving a horse biomechanical cues and achieving mechanical unity with a horse can lead to the potential of discovery of the next level of connection that I am calling intention and Ray Hunt calls square zero, but the requirement to get there with a horse is not the result of work on the level of biomechanics. It is the result of feel or consciousness. I have known many equestrian competitors who are biomechanical masters, ultimate technicians but have very little feel. They cannot use there advanced physical abilities to discover and connect with a horse's intention before movement. As a result, they become masters of square one. But I feel that this is the "hard way". The easy way is to get to the awareness or feel of intention and collaborate there. Form the movement with the horse before it begins. It's not that difficult if you have the right horse to teach you. Once learned with a sensitive communicative horse, a rider can find unity on the level of intention with other horses, and after years an experienced rider can find it with most. It's better, simpler and in the end less demanding of both the horse and rider to form motion at the level of intention. And yes, there are people born with this ability but they cannot explain it. It can be explained. It would be great if someone would offer an example of feeling this pre-movement place of intention and we could explore how to use it. Lastly, you write, " ... to remove the mechanics and fundamental skills, indeed the practice of being an effective rider does a disservice to the work involved." I am not suggesting removing that work, only going beyond it, which in a practical sense is to go deeper and end up in front of it. Tell coaches of 350# football players about directing a dominant physical power. This is a discussion that includes some nods to the theoretical. My point had more to do with the amount of practice required to achieve excellent communication, which pertains to and is germane to the discussion of unity. I thought that using another familiar sport might draw a good visual for some. Some people will be excellent technicians. Some people will be instinctively good at connecting with a horse. Some people will be both. And some people will just want to pet the pretty ponies. |
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 22:10:03 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 19, 2016 22:10:03 GMT
I think it is sometime difficult to use words to reach understanding. But words are what we have here. There is, I think, a meaningful distinction between a football player working to direct an opponent's energy and a rider working to create a unified energy of shared movement through mutual intention and initiation. In fact, I would say that both football players, being opponents, have no intention of a common or unified movement, just the opposite. Describing the process of going deeper from the physical to the level of intention and formation as "theoretical" , I believe, limits the topic to the intellectual realm. The experience of this level of unity is physical and intellectual if done consciously and it can have a high degree of emotional satisfaction as well. Once again, I will point to the fact that mounted soldiers were responsible for the development of haute école or high school riding not as an intellectual indulgence, but rather to increase their odds of practical survival in war. Yes, there were theories put forth from the masters that were then challenged through application by other masters, but at no time were these insights or applications considered theoretical. .jpg) |
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unity
Jul 19, 2016 23:31:34 GMT
Post by jimmy on Jul 19, 2016 23:31:34 GMT
This is a good topic and conversation.
One observation I have about this, is that unity does not always imply control. Unity is what happens before the control.
It is possible to have no control, and be in this unity. Riding a bronc is a good example.
It is also being able to feel through your body when the horse is getting ready. I don't always know what he is getting ready to do, but he gets ready to do something. The ability to control a horse in these moments is about the ability, or utilizing the opportunity before he commits to an action, to change his thoughts, to influence he getting ready part. That is working at square zero, I think. After that, it's pretty ordinary. What makes a ride remarkable is being in that moment. I have maybe felt that a handful of times. Most of the time, I miss it. I am better at recognizing I have missed it than I used to be. It is a very different place to operate from, that square zero. But I think it where everything important really happens.
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unity
Jul 20, 2016 12:42:18 GMT
Post by horseguy on Jul 20, 2016 12:42:18 GMT
I agree Jimmy. Unity is not control. It is being there completely with the horse. The bronc example is good.
In my "novel" about Ego Farm I mentioned a young horse that was bought for a good young rider. That horse invited you into unity but not control. He was not a bronc but more of an amusement park ride you wanted to keep getting back onto. That horse would have taught that young rider so much about unity but no one at the new barn where he ended up liked amusement park rides it would seem.
The horse has to want unity. Most do to a degree, but the ones that invite you in, even pull you in, are the ones that are hard to miss.
When I read that Jimmy's judgement was that he didn't feel unity that often, my reaction was he works difficult horses. The horses that end up in the hands of a good horse trainer tend to be the horses that do not want unity either as a result of experience or it's just how they are. My most famous failure Magnum was an absolute no-unity horse.
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unity
Jul 20, 2016 14:38:13 GMT
Post by jimmy on Jul 20, 2016 14:38:13 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of finding that place where you are neither ahead of the horse or behind, but right there, doing the right thing at the right moment. When the horse and you the same idea at the same time, or your influence on the horse's idea happens in an instant, on demand. I cannot profess to such perfection. I have felt it at times, and it's worth striving for. I am always looking for it.
But it is true that some horses have so many barriers built in by poor handling, that the horse's default is defense, or some sort of learned struggle as a normal way of operating. I think this is the result of people generally operating at square 2 or 3 right off the bat. They go right by square one, and are not even aware there is a zero.
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unity
Jul 20, 2016 20:14:09 GMT
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Post by rideforever on Jul 20, 2016 20:14:09 GMT
To me, every ride is a conversation. Asking, receiving, giving. Tuning in to the horse, and as the horse learns to tune into me, each ride comes closer to unity. Some horses are easier to do that with. But I find it is much easier when I have the right mindset. Maybe it's because I've studied martial arts, but I try to get on the horse and be present, without expectations, and accept what I find. That doesn't mean I'm not going to adjust what I get from the horse, but I try to flow with it, accept it and nudge it the right direction. Horses see to respond well to a "zen" approach to horsemanship. They very much live in the now.
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