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Post by horseguy on Feb 27, 2017 14:51:43 GMT
One really interesting aspect of being at a boarding barn is watching instructors come in and give lessons. I have rarely seen other instructors teach until now.
After watching quite a few lessons from various instructors I am forming an idea that there are basically two approaches in teaching riding. One way is to focus primarily on the unity of the horse and rider. I will call this method the "Physical" approach. In this method every comment to a student is about how they are connected or not connected with their horse. Sometimes technique is mentioned but only in terms of increasing unity. This method puts the details of riding technique like leg position relative to the girth, the hand position, and so on in a secondary level while how the horse and rider move as one physical movement as the primary level.
To teach using the Physical method, the instructor must be capable of seeing precisely where the unity between the horse and rider is breaking down, and have the ability to explain to the student how to join that broken place of unity. An example of this would be seeing a rider perch above the saddle and the result is the horse gains control of the movement, thus separating the student from the movement. The solution here is to tell the rider to sit. not perch, and to help the rider to sit and lower their center of gravity into the horse by means of relaxation, opening up the shoulders and centering their upper body laterally and longitudinally. This lesson might sound like, "Open your shoulders, soften your hips", and saying rhythmically, "sit, sit, sit," at each one beat of the canter. It also might include some advice to put a little more weight in the outside stirrup in a bend in order to have a more stable lateral balance, for example.
The Physical approach to riding instruction is somewhat like working on a car, tuning various aspects of the connections.
The second method I see is the "Form" approach. In this method the instructor drills the student in achieving and maintaining forms. In this kind of teaching the student's visual form is compared to an optimum picture in the instructors head of how the rider should look. Position of hands, legs, feet, etc. become the main focus of the lesson. It is thought that by teaching the rider a specific series of forms that they will be more stable and effective when riding. These forms are taught by means of repetition, which is why in the early stages of this kind of training "Heels down" is so commonly heard. Whereas in the Physical method of instruction, the heels might be ignored for a while and the seat connection would be a more important focus. I have for many years ignored heel position until a rider gains enough unity of seat and stability of the upper body to maintain a changing balance as their horse moves. Once this is achieved, I will take a rider with a tight upward heel position on a long ride, or fox hunting, where they cannot maintain the heel position for very long as a result of the fatigue that heel position ultimately produces. Rider fatigue builds effectiveness in riding.
I see various combinations of these two approaches. Few instructors seem to have one or the other as a pure method. The question becomes what is the proportion of Physical connection instruction to Form instruction in a lesson? I'd be curious to hear people's experience of instruction and learn the mix of Physical and Form teaching they have experienced in lessons.
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Post by Laura on Feb 28, 2017 3:09:51 GMT
I don't post very often, but I am the fifteen year old that Horseguy sometimes mentions here on the forum; my name is Laura. I have had lessons from a few different instructors, and almost all of them tended to focus on a rider's form rather than their connection with the horse. I consider myself very fortunate to have started out with a "physical" upbringing. I think that it has allowed me to better see improvement in myself, as well as to critique myself when riding. It has taught me to feel when something is truly good rather than when something simply looks good. I now receive instruction from that same person who started me off and I couldn't be happier. I never felt as though I was improving from instructors that would rely on the "form" method, I do however appreciate that it gave me a different way to look at things. I think that the "form" method may look nice in a show ring, but as a foxhunter, I appreciate being taught the way I was because it taught me to have a solid seat so that I can stay on in tricky situations. There are many times when I am out in the field that I actually think about it and wonder if I would've just stayed on if I had been brought up differently. I hope to make a career out of horsemanship in one form or another, whether its training horses, instructing riders, or even riding itself, and I think that the "physical" method by which I was brought up is preparing me very well for whatever may come in the future.
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Post by horseguy on Feb 28, 2017 3:29:25 GMT
I don't post very often, but I am the fifteen year old that Horseguy sometimes mentions here on the forum; my name is Laura. I have had lessons from a few different instructors, and almost all of them tended to focus on a rider's form rather than their connection with the horse. I consider myself very fortunate to have started out with a "physical" upbringing. I think that it has allowed me to better see improvement in myself, as well as to critique myself when riding. It has taught me to feel when something is truly good rather than when something simply looks good. I now receive instruction from that same person who started me off and I couldn't be happier. I never felt as though I was improving from instructors that would rely on the "form" method, I do however appreciate that it gave me a different way to look at things. I think that the "form" method may look nice in a show ring, but as a foxhunter, I appreciate being taught the way I was because it taught me to have a solid seat so that I can stay on in tricky situations. There are many times when I am out in the field that I actually think about it and wonder if I would've just stayed on if I had been brought up differently. I hope to make a career out of horsemanship in one form or another, whether its training horses, instructing riders, or even riding itself, and I think that the "physical" method by which I was brought up is preparing me very well for whatever may come in the future. Thank you Laura. That is most kind. |
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Post by rideanotherday on Mar 1, 2017 12:30:07 GMT
I'm a western rider, and I think that the concepts are taught more in combination, though for reining and cowhorse events, the trainers definitely focused more on the "physical" part - being able to tell what each hoof is doing and where the horse is at in stride to be more effective with cues.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 1, 2017 14:47:32 GMT
I'm a western rider, and I think that the concepts are taught more in combination, though for reining and cowhorse events, the trainers definitely focused more on the "physical" part - being able to tell what each hoof is doing and where the horse is at in stride to be more effective with cues. You bring up foot falls. They are one of the important differences between Physical and Form instruction. The example I gave of saying "sit, sit, sit" on the one beat of the canter to help a student get deeper is about footfalls. Lead changes, transitions, a lot of things are best addressed by means of helping the student feel their horse's feet touch the ground. Feeling foot falls is essential when doing things like riding over frozen terrain, but the Form type instructors, especially English, tend to be show instructors who's students never leave the flat arena with even footing and thus can get away with not addressing foot falls. |
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Post by rideanotherday on Mar 1, 2017 20:47:37 GMT
I'm a western rider, and I think that the concepts are taught more in combination, though for reining and cowhorse events, the trainers definitely focused more on the "physical" part - being able to tell what each hoof is doing and where the horse is at in stride to be more effective with cues. You bring up foot falls. They are one of the important differences between Physical and Form instruction. The example I gave of saying "sit, sit, sit" on the one beat of the canter to help a student get deeper is about footfalls. Lead changes, transitions, a lot of things are best addressed by means of helping the student feel their horse's feet touch the ground. Feeling foot falls is essential when doing things like riding over frozen terrain, but the Form type instructors, especially English, tend to be show instructors who's students never leave the flat arena with even footing and thus can get away with not addressing foot falls. If you want to ride in reining, cowhorse, and cutting events it sure helps to be able to know *when* to apply the aids. it's the difference between a +1 and -1. Doesn't sound like much at first, but they add up when you have 5 judges. |
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Post by Maritza on Mar 2, 2017 5:31:17 GMT
When I first moved here and was looking for a farm to ride at I narrowed it down to 2 places. I decided to take a lesson at each so that I could see the place, meet the trainers, and see what a lesson would be like.
Place A the trainer kept focusing on my heels being down and I could feel them drift in front of the girth. Whenever I would fix them she told me to push my heels down further which lead to them going in front of the girth again. For that and a few other reasons I decided that that farm was not a good fit for what I was looking for. (All about the form)
Place B (where I ride at now) my first lesson was mostly just her watching me communicate with the horse. She did give me instruction but a lot of it was "do a figure 8", "make a circle", or "go over the ground rails" Then little by little she worked on my form. The horse that ride his strong side is going to the left. He will hold himself together more so I can focus a little more on me. His weak side is the right lead, which is my strong side so I can focus more on being connected with him. My current trainer makes it a point to have me try to replicate the same canter stride for both leads. (A combination of both, but more to the physical side of the spectrum. She'd rather a jump be safe and steady rather than pretty)
Something my trainer has noticed during my lessons is that my muscle memory is almost photographic. When I make a mistake I remember how awkward that felt and/or unsafe and then I am able to prevent the mistake and reinforce the correct form/set/aid (depending what we are working on). If I had to guess where I picked this up I think it would have to be from Horseguy. He helped me become very body aware.
Also something else I learned from Horseguy is how to feel through the horse, whether its the ground or what the horse is doing. This is a very useful skill when riding especially since there are no mirrors at the farm I ride at to see myself.
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Post by rideanotherday on Mar 2, 2017 12:04:21 GMT
When I first moved here and was looking for a farm to ride at I narrowed it down to 2 places. I decided to take a lesson at each so that I could see the place, meet the trainers, and see what a lesson would be like. Place A the trainer kept focusing on my heels being down and I could feel them drift in front of the girth. Whenever I would fix them she told me to push my heels down further which lead to them going in front of the girth again. For that and a few other reasons I decided that that farm was not a good fit for what I was looking for. (All about the form) Place B (where I ride at now) my first lesson was mostly just her watching me communicate with the horse. She did give me instruction but a lot of it was "do a figure 8", "make a circle", or "go over the ground rails" Then little by little she worked on my form. The horse that ride his strong side is going to the left. He will hold himself together more so I can focus a little more on me. His weak side is the right lead, which is my strong side so I can focus more on being connected with him. My current trainer makes it a point to have me try to replicate the same canter stride for both leads. (A combination of both, but more to the physical side of the spectrum. She'd rather a jump be safe and steady rather than pretty) Something my trainer has noticed during my lessons is that my muscle memory is almost photographic. When I make a mistake I remember how awkward that felt and/or unsafe and then I am able to prevent the mistake and reinforce the correct form/set/aid (depending what we are working on). If I had to guess where I picked this up I think it would have to be from Horseguy. He helped me become very body aware. Also something else I learned from Horseguy is how to feel through the horse, whether its the ground or what the horse is doing. This is a very useful skill when riding especially since there are no mirrors at the farm I ride at to see myself. That's interesting that your leg drifted forward when you put your heels down - what did the rest of your body do? were you bracing and causing your shoulders and upper body back as well? In theory, there are 2 reasons to have your heels down. 1) to prevent your feet from going through the stirrup. 2) to lower your center of gravity which will get it closer to the horse's center of gravity, which makes your movements more connected and solid. People get hung up on heels down. Don't get me wrong, it has it's place. By that focus, people get "locked in" to a position and become immobile. Riding is more flexible and fluid than that. The horse is moving, which means the rider should too! There's constant adjusting and adapting going on if you want to be an effective rider. |
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Post by Jlynn on Mar 2, 2017 12:53:30 GMT
Although I was involved in 4-H as a youth, we mostly had fun and learned horsemanship (not necessarily riding) skills. I didn't take regular lessons until I was in my early 20's. I was showing Quarter horses and my first regular lessons were about form. Was my back strait, was my head up, was my leg back and down, were my hands too high or too low.... The horse was secondary. Then I took some jumping lessons and was told I had "lovely form" but I needed to be able to be comfortable in other positions. She also taught me to focus more on what the horse and I were doing together, and to soften up and go with the horse more. I took reining lessons for about a year as well, which were more along the lines of the physical lessons, but it seemed that instructor wanted more of a brace in my body, especially my legs. It wasn't until almost 20 years later I started attending some horsemanship clinics and I really started learning to feel what the horse is doing - from weight shifts and foot falls to the brace or softness of the jaw to the rigidity of the rib cage. I'm not sure I was able or ready to feel those things in my 20's - I was too self centered. I also think, in hindsight, that after riding as a kid and doing all that things that kids do on a horse without much knowledgeable adult supervision, my form needed correction - so that is what the instructor focused on.
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Post by Maritza on Mar 2, 2017 16:31:03 GMT
Rideanotherday. I honestly don't remember. That lesson was in August when I first moved to Colorado and I ended up going with a different farm and since that trial lesson I haven't had that problem.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 3, 2017 21:58:39 GMT
... the trainer kept focusing on my heels being down and I could feel them drift in front of the girth. Whenever I would fix them she told me to push my heels down further which lead to them going in front of the girth again. Typically, when a rider is asked to focus on one small muscle group those muscles become tight. The next thing that happens is the tightness radiates out from the original tight spot. If it begins in the heel it can only go up the leg, then to the knee. When people tighten their knees, that usually results in the knee straightening. So, if you develop a tight lower leg that straightens, which happens all the time, with the heels forced down typically the leg drifts forward, but sometimes in intense tightness it can lift the rider upward. For this reason I try not to focus on a specific muscle group when teaching. Instead I like to say things like "relax and stretch from the waist down, let the horse move you". The odd thing about all the "heels down" stuff is the Army didn't care that much about it. It was more important to have the stirrup "home" meaning all the way back to the boot heel to prevent loss of the stirrup. A mounted soldier's feet were level with the ground on the flat. "Heels down" is a Hunter/Jumper form that George Morris insisted on, even though his teacher Gordon Wright, a US Cavalry instructor, most likely did not make a big deal of it. George had his quirks and in a kind of OCD way made them important. American English riding will be dealing with his idiosyncrasies for a long time to come. |
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Post by grayhorse on Mar 22, 2017 4:38:39 GMT
I've had both types of instruction. One gal I can think of was so adamant about "heels down" I literally crippled myself for a week after riding with her. She had me completely laying on my horses neck over a 18" jump by the way...boy if my horse had decided to stop back then I would've hit the ground...she would NOT allow me to sit up and be centered on my horse, I had to lean forward. No, not "close my hip" but LEAN forward..and stay there low practically kissing mane before and after the jump. I had another H/J trainer tell me once to stop looking so "dressagie" whatever that meant ...on the flip side, I've had some instructors not comment on my position at all. Guess that means I was perfect, eh?  just kidding. I will say overall western trainers (and Im talking the performance disciplines) say a lot less about "forms" than the English ones (aka hunter jumpers) in my experience. My dressage instructor I would say does a bit of both. She will concentrate on my riding position being correct (as in, if I were to be judged) but she doesn't let it overshadow or get in the way of how my horse and I are working together. Balance, unity, straightness, rhythm, connection, feel, timing etc those are paramount. Funny thing is in order to achieve those things I have to be sitting and working pretty darn well on my horse to start with so...I mean, if I start flapping my elbows or collapsing my core she definitely lets me know. ~Carrie |
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just kidding.