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Post by horseguy on May 25, 2017 14:44:38 GMT
Since moving almost two years ago from the farm I have been a boarder at four stables. Summary: first one run by bipolar woman who new horses but had spells of insanity, dangerous to horses and people. After a couple months the roller coaster there got to me and we moved to the drunk guy's place who's wife was a gem and great horseman. The horses never looked better but he plowed the driveway twice through the winter making it inaccessible to anything but wheel drive and trailers could not make it out until spring. Forget hunting. Third place close to our city home, something Karen really wanted, but he owners knew nothing about horses and didn't want to learn. Forth and present, a millennial who I knew going I might be a problem. I can't take it anymore.
This area is not horse country. Most if the barns are run by millennials with a horse hobby, newbies to horses or Hunter/Jumpers. I have run out of options. For the last month I have been struggling with getting out of horses completely. I am an anachronism in the horse world here (maybe everywhere) and it is exhausting me. It's been difficult to write or say much. Then recently I got an email from a student from years ago who wants me to travel to an other State to design a cross country course. I'm wondering if this is a sign of some sort. I he gotten to point I don't want to walk into a barn. This is why have not been posting.
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Post by jimmy on May 26, 2017 5:53:59 GMT
Do you remember the song by the Bellamy Brothers years ago?
Replace the word horseman for hippie in the chorus.
'Cause he's an old hippie
And he don't know what to do
Should he hang on to the old
Should he grab on to the new.
He's and old hippie
This new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust.
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Post by rideanotherday on May 26, 2017 10:48:55 GMT
I'm going to quote something I saw on Facebook for you:
"Every day I see posts about the "disgraceful" millennials. "They are snowflakes, they are cowards, they are lazy" these memes shout at us with the written exuberance of a carnival barker.
But if a trainer has fifteen horses in his barn and none of them work, do we blame the horses?
There are two options in this situation. One is get rid of the horses and find ones that make you look good.
And two is change your program(yourself). Put in more effort, take responsibility, and accountability. Become clear in what you expect and provide an example.
Bad horses usually come about because we didn't pay enough (or gave the wrong kind of) attention. And I believe it's the same for children.
Now, option one is tough because we can't just get rid of an entire generation. So option two might be worth looking into..."
If you let other people define your happiness you are bound to be disappointed. Your riding and horsemanship is not anachronistic. How you package it and present it might be. I don't know, because I haven't met you in person. One of the things I have learned is that you have to be able to recognize "try". Today's students in horsemanship work and learn differently. Getting mad about how they do it is inviting frustration. If you decide to get out, that's totally understandable.
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Post by jimmy on May 26, 2017 14:54:42 GMT
I'm going to quote something I saw on Facebook for you:
"Every day I see posts about the "disgraceful" millennials. "They are snowflakes, they are cowards, they are lazy" these memes shout at us with the written exuberance of a carnival barker.
But if a trainer has fifteen horses in his barn and none of them work, do we blame the horses?
There are two options in this situation. One is get rid of the horses and find ones that make you look good.
And two is change your program(yourself). Put in more effort, take responsibility, and accountability. Become clear in what you expect and provide an example.
Bad horses usually come about because we didn't pay enough (or gave the wrong kind of) attention. And I believe it's the same for children.
Now, option one is tough because we can't just get rid of an entire generation. So option two might be worth looking into..."
If you let other people define your happiness you are bound to be disappointed. Your riding and horsemanship is not anachronistic. How you package it and present it might be. I don't know, because I haven't met you in person. One of the things I have learned is that you have to be able to recognize "try". Today's students in horsemanship work and learn differently. Getting mad about how they do it is inviting frustration. If you decide to get out, that's totally understandable.
I don't understand your post. You seem to be suggesting that the problem HG is having is because he doesn't take responsibility, or accountability, and isn't clear in his teaching. I have never met HG either, but somehow I don't think any of those things are true. I have read accounts from several students here that say otherwise. We have talked about discipline before. It isn't about not being able to, or not recognizing try in a student. It is about expecting discipline and effort,both in the person, and of the horses.Those things are sadly lacking in the barns he is talking about, from the sounds of it. The reference to millinials, is I believe in regards to the idea that, "I will let you teach me as long as you don't ever make me feel bad, or make me sweat, or make it too hard." I've seen this first hand, where the students, or parents as well, want to be able to dictate the manner of lesson. I've seen these kinds of lessons geared to indulging the student. "That's better, that's good, nice try, etc. etc. When what I'm seeing is something that is not better, not good, and not an adequate try to accomplish anything. But the trainer considers it a success, based on the fact the students comes back and keeps paying. Kind of like some universities these days. I gave that story of the gal with the mule at the Buck Brannaman clinic. She gets kicked and drug around, and can't touch it's ears, but feels she loves the mule and the mule loves her, and Buck displaying a discipline act of firmness is considered animal abuse. When you witness that kind of thing in barn after barn after barn, it is enough to make you want to quit. |
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Post by horseguy on May 26, 2017 15:05:49 GMT
It's just frustrating. For example, in the barn aisle there are several water hydrants with 2' x 2' dry wells )holes in the concreter floor filled with gravel) to absorb the water that spills down. These are always filled with old hay that is damp and molds in warm weather. I clean them out from time to time, but a couple days later they are filled again. I explained to a student there that my TB will not touch that dangerous hay because racehorses are always given more hay than they can eat, so they learn to be picky. But a horse that was raised where hay was in short supply will go to that damp hay and eat every blade of it and consume the mold spores, risking colic.
This millennial "professional barn operator" never cleans this hay up and wonders why knowledge able horse people who come and are potential boarders never take a stall there. Every time I point something out like this I get push back and "reasons" why I am wrong. I could writ a very long list of these kinds of things that don't effect me directly but after spending several months there the cumulative effect is I don't want to be there. But most of the bars are like this place around here. The ones that aren't are Hunter/Jumper oozing money spotless places or dressage barns. Two of the four were "western" barns but that's a word to describe self taught backyard riders who don't know much.
I wish there was an eventing barn, a hunt barn, a polo barn or a real western barn but I have been unable to find one within a hour drive. I tried "real hard to adjust" and I couldn't.
"And two is change your program(yourself). Put in more effort, take responsibility, and accountability. Become clear in what you expect and provide an example."
All of the above is lacking there. This "professional" sits on a bench and texts 90% of the time, is not accountable and the example set is dangerous and stupid. I watched a kid around 7 or 8 years old in a lesson the other day. The kid didn't even know how to mount a horse. This poor child got on with the reins looped on the neck way up by the ears and then tried to reach for the reins and couldn't. Good thing the horse just stood there. If that horse had taken off the kid would have been traumatized for life about horses.
The TB got cut the other day in the pasture and the wound was not managed properly in the first days and now is now in one of those long term "redo" treatment plans I have to manage. The list goes on. Not sure what I will do but I feel like just avoiding the whole deal.
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Post by horseguy on May 26, 2017 15:15:44 GMT
"I will let you teach me as long as you don't ever make me feel bad, or make me sweat, or make it too hard."
That's the millennial code of education. I'd add "as long as you never tell me I am doing something wrong", which I guess is covered by as long as you never make me feel bad.
Like I always say, our US Eventing Team has two Australian ringers on it and still we continue to finish 7th to 10th in international competition, and each Olympics we seem to drop down a couple notches in Eventing. The next Olympics is 2020 in Tokyo, I expect we will be beaten again by countries with fewer horses and riders than many US States have.
He's and old horseguy
This new life is just a bust
He ain't trying to change nobody
He's just trying real hard to adjust.
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Post by rideanotherday on May 30, 2017 10:46:55 GMT
I'm going to quote something I saw on Facebook for you:
"Every day I see posts about the "disgraceful" millennials. "They are snowflakes, they are cowards, they are lazy" these memes shout at us with the written exuberance of a carnival barker.
But if a trainer has fifteen horses in his barn and none of them work, do we blame the horses?
There are two options in this situation. One is get rid of the horses and find ones that make you look good.
And two is change your program(yourself). Put in more effort, take responsibility, and accountability. Become clear in what you expect and provide an example.
Bad horses usually come about because we didn't pay enough (or gave the wrong kind of) attention. And I believe it's the same for children.
Now, option one is tough because we can't just get rid of an entire generation. So option two might be worth looking into..."
If you let other people define your happiness you are bound to be disappointed. Your riding and horsemanship is not anachronistic. How you package it and present it might be. I don't know, because I haven't met you in person. One of the things I have learned is that you have to be able to recognize "try". Today's students in horsemanship work and learn differently. Getting mad about how they do it is inviting frustration. If you decide to get out, that's totally understandable.
I don't understand your post. You seem to be suggesting that the problem HG is having is because he doesn't take responsibility, or accountability, and isn't clear in his teaching. I have never met HG either, but somehow I don't think any of those things are true. I have read accounts from several students here that say otherwise. We have talked about discipline before. It isn't about not being able to, or not recognizing try in a student. It is about expecting discipline and effort,both in the person, and of the horses.Those things are sadly lacking in the barns he is talking about, from the sounds of it. The reference to millinials, is I believe in regards to the idea that, "I will let you teach me as long as you don't ever make me feel bad, or make me sweat, or make it too hard." I've seen this first hand, where the students, or parents as well, want to be able to dictate the manner of lesson. I've seen these kinds of lessons geared to indulging the student. "That's better, that's good, nice try, etc. etc. When what I'm seeing is something that is not better, not good, and not an adequate try to accomplish anything. But the trainer considers it a success, based on the fact the students comes back and keeps paying. Kind of like some universities these days. I gave that story of the gal with the mule at the Buck Brannaman clinic. She gets kicked and drug around, and can't touch it's ears, but feels she loves the mule and the mule loves her, and Buck displaying a discipline act of firmness is considered animal abuse. When you witness that kind of thing in barn after barn after barn, it is enough to make you want to quit. It's not about HG...so much as it is about the program. If your program isn't successful with 15 out of 15...then change the program or presentation or both. Of course he doesn't have to change either of those things. Teaching millenials is difficult. I raised one. Absolutely it's frustrating. She's a bit of a throwback in some ways because she has a work ethic and a sense of responsibility. That is work I put into it though. If HG is frustrated and getting no enjoyment, then stop. No one can fault him for that. |
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Post by Justkeepriding on May 30, 2017 17:18:13 GMT
Hi horseguy. I've been going through and reading your posts for a few months now. I read your post from when you originally moved to this barn which I believe you said was Diamond 7 Ranch. I've been doing a little "research" on google to try and help you with the barn search. I do not live in your area so I do not know anything about these barns other than what is on their websites but I thought I'd throw out some names that I found. Do you know anything about Heavenwood Farm, Hobby Horse Stables, Stonehill Stables, or Robinson Equestrian? I also found Heritage Acres but, that looked like a complete hunter jumper farm. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't found any real horsemen/women in your area yet. Hoping for the best.
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Post by horseguy on May 31, 2017 13:23:45 GMT
Hi horseguy. I've been going through and reading your posts for a few months now. I read your post from when you originally moved to this barn which I believe you said was Diamond 7 Ranch. I've been doing a little "research" on google to try and help you with the barn search. I do not live in your area so I do not know anything about these barns other than what is on their websites but I thought I'd throw out some names that I found. Do you know anything about Heavenwood Farm, Hobby Horse Stables, Stonehill Stables, or Robinson Equestrian? I also found Heritage Acres but, that looked like a complete hunter jumper farm. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't found any real horsemen/women in your area yet. Hoping for the best. Thank you for your help. My energy to look around at stables these days is pretty low. My mind is running more toward loaning the TB mare to a former student or to a friend's therapeutic riding program and selling the prospect. The thought of trying another barn is pretty low on my list of things I want to do. I am at Diamond 7 but that place is big and it leases barns on the property to operators. Where I am is one of those. Diamond 7 doesn't have any programs besides hosting shows & clinics, mostly western. I know a couple of the stables you list. I will check out the ones I don't. I am now driving up to the barn almost every day (42 miles round trip) to deal with a mismanaged cut on a hind pastern of our TB mare. I left instructions on how to treat it and as I checked on their work it was obvious that my instructions were not followed, especially over the Memorial Day long weekend when it appeared that nothing at all was done. The place is just another pretend barn, some millennial's post teen years hobby. I have lived in places like Potomach MD, Bucks Co. PA and other authentic horse areas where people have been in horses for generations, but here in south central PA there is none of that. The hunt and polo clubs here are driven by new members getting into horses lead by newbie pretenders (with the exception of a couple run by generational horsemen who are hard core drunks). It's the area. I am coming to the conclusion I have to move a real distance to be in a horse area or get out of horses all together. I never envisioned the end of my horse career would be so frustrating. I do find support in former students who stay in touch and continue in the path I learned and taught them. I'll be heading up to NY State to design that cross country course soon. It is what it is. I just hope the US manages to stay in the top 10 in Tokyo eventing. If that meager goal is not achieved, I think I will take up bowling or something. Thanks again. |
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Post by Maritza on Jun 1, 2017 2:01:47 GMT
On a smaller scale, I went through something of what Bob is talking about. After Bob retired I had trouble finding a new place to ride. When I did find a place the person was very unprofessional (canceling lessons at the last minute, showing up late, at one point I was essentially paying her to train her latest prospect). I did manage to find another one that gave me back a little bit of the strong foundation Bob gave me but even then riding was treated as a hobby and not a sport in my lessons. I am really lucky to have found an eventing/dressage farm out here.
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Post by grayhorse on Jun 7, 2017 5:16:06 GMT
Horseguy, I'm sorry to hear you are having frustrations with facilities, people, the horse world etc. It's too bad I only know you via your online personality, I would've liked very much to have been part of your riding/lesson program. I am always trying to engage people in conversation about the ideals and methods of horsemanship I read about on here. Sometimes I challenge my trainers with it too  Anyhow, I don't know exactly what my post/response is about other than to hopefully be a little encouraging and I hope things work out for you. If you retired from horse's 100% it sure would be a loss for the horses. Carrie |
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