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Post by horseguy on Jun 29, 2017 19:59:15 GMT
George Morris is a Hall of Fame Stadium Jumper. People have come here to the forum who came up through his "tradition" (in quotes because his tradition is only about 40 years old, no time at all really). These riders have been somewhat antagonistic to obnoxious (I deleted those people). They have come wanting information, attention, affirmation and to be "right". Information is what we give here, and take as well. In that spirit, I am asking all the H/J trained riders to tell us what you know of George Morris.
This is a sort of historical inquiry, not an attempt to embarrass or demine. It's a test of the educational system, not of individuals. There is a potion of the test that is individual. It is to see if the new people can contribute as well as receive.
To help these folks provide a contribution I will pose some questions.
Do you know...
who taught George and what his background was?
where he competed and how well or poorly he did?
what has he accomplish3ed since retiring from competition?
what are his thoughts on horse training?
what sports or disciplines besides Stadium Jumping has he participated in?
what specific techniques did he introduce to riding?
what innovations to the general sport or activity of riding besides actual riding has be established in America?
We will stipulate that the is an equestrian icon or guru and ask what is the global geographic range of his influence or impact?
This should be enough to get you started. There are some fun "trick" questions in there because this is a fun place. (Jimmy cracked me up with his shirt - saddle pad color coordination joke today, for example.)
And now I will offer a story relevant to this process. If you stick around, you will learn I like to tell stories.
There was a baseball player for the New York Yankees named Billy Martin. He was of my generation and held similar cultural values. He was colorful on and off the field. His favorite saying was, "I never throw the first punch in a fight, just the second two." He came back to the Yankees as the team Manager at a time when American players were losing their majority as Major League players, as Caribbean players were fast filling the ranks of top players. He therefore managed and coached in a sport in a time of transition of players, values and even languages.
While the Yankees were at bat sitting in the dugout, he noticed that some of the young players were listening to music with headphones, snoozing, and otherwise not paying attention to the game. Billy, in his usual direct or blatant manner grabbed a couple of his disinterested players by the neck of their shirts, pulled them off the bench and up to the dugout rail where they could better see the game. He followed this with a sort of baseball trivia contest in a loud and lively voice. "Who is Babe Ruth?" "What pitcher invented the knuckle ball?" and so on. They were all clueless. After demonstrating there void of knowledge, he continued in his loud an lively tone, "You guys are all freakin millionaires from playing this game and you don't have enough respect for it to know anything about it." More collar grabbing followed as did some Manager authorized suspensions and pay deductions.
I can't dock your pay or push you up against a dugout rail to encourage your attention and respect for "the game" but I can block your participation here, which to some would most likely be a relief. The Morris trivia game is to see if you can give as well as receive. Good luck.
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Post by jimmy on Jun 29, 2017 22:44:38 GMT
I kind of get that way when I hear someone say how much they love natural horsemanship, but they never heard of Ray Hunt.
(which in a way is good, because he couldn't stand the term)
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Post by Troll on Jun 30, 2017 1:26:24 GMT
“I will admit, lots of these problems we have today, I helped to start. The crest release—I legitimized it. Gordon Wright taught it, Rodney Jenkins used it, but I legitimized it for the masses, and now that’s my fault. I started importing European horses. I started taking private tours to Europe. Lots of the problems that have exploded, I started them. But people have taken everything to the extremes. So perhaps at night I do sometimes have a flash of a guilty conscience. But it doesn’t last long.” -George Morris
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Post by horseguy on Jun 30, 2017 11:19:03 GMT
“I will admit, lots of these problems we have today, I helped to start. The crest release—I legitimized it. Gordon Wright taught it, Rodney Jenkins used it, but I legitimized it for the masses, and now that’s my fault. I started importing European horses. I started taking private tours to Europe. Lots of the problems that have exploded, I started them. But people have taken everything to the extremes. So perhaps at night I do sometimes have a flash of a guilty conscience. But it doesn’t last long.” -George Morris I can take some credit for this quote. About 15 or so years ago Morris posted on the Chronicle of the Horse forums. I and a few other old school professionals confronted him about his changes to the Fort Riley Seat that he learned from Gordon Wright. I typed up pages of the Chamberlin Cavalry Manuals and Wright's book and posted them to show precise violations of the traditional Seat by his Hunter Seat. He really had no where to hide and eventually wrote a response in Practical Horseman (I went out and bought a copy and saved it but cannot find it now) and this quote if from the month's column. This quote got him in even deeper trouble. For one, a good friend of mine Sally H. trained with Jenkins along with Lynn L., who rode Grand Prix level for several years (her daughter is an active pro now). She told me there was no way that Jenkins taught the crest release and that statement was an outright lie. Likewise, having been trained myself by a Cavalry instructor in the same tradition as Wright, I know that leaning on your horse's neck over a jump was not called a crest release, it was called a mistake. We used jumping straps. Several of Morris's tormentors on the forum also had been trained by Cavalry riders and confirmed the the assertion that the idea that Wright taught the crest release was impossible. Besides, Wright retired from the Army and became a huge fox hunter all over the country and anyone who hunts knows a crest release will get you killed in downhill jumps and other tricky terrain jumps. Morris was trying to spread the blame for his innovation. Not in this quote was his assertion then that he "intended the crest release to be like temporary training wheels". he said is was not his fault it became the standard and a step down from the direct release, now called the automatic release. In that statement he was trying to get off the hook with "good intentions". To many of us older pre-Morris riders his intention was clear, to simplify in order to have the easiest lesson method to get more people to spend money. In fact he also in that "explanation" column said his intention was to get more people riding, which he did, but in the process he ruined the American standard. Now we do have more people riding, but poorly. Thank you George. Not long after this column Morris diapered from the forum. I left there too because it started to be populated by the types we see coming here after the dressage expulsion. |
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Post by horseguy on Jun 30, 2017 12:27:40 GMT
I kind of get that way when I hear someone say how much they love natural horsemanship, but they never heard of Ray Hunt. (which in a way is good, because he couldn't stand the term) I call these people who get into a sport and have no respect for it "wannabees". They treat it as if a sport was developed, kept alive active for centuries and they come into it and it's all about them. They treat it like a paper napkin, something to use and throw away, with no acknowledgement that generations of former players that have handed it down to them and they are just the next link in the chain. We had a Fox Hunt here called The Rose Tree Hunt Club. It was the oldest continuously operating fox hunt in the US, over 150 years. During two World Wars the women and children of the hunt kept it going, culling hounds and replacing them,, training horses and hounds and keeping it active so their returning soldiers would have a hunt to come home to. A guy named Mike took it over when the former Master went south to be Master of a pack in the Carolinas. Long story short, this guy had it in ruin in about 9 years. During these years traditionalists left because of how it was run, taking their financial support with them. What was left were these wannabees who partied on. It closed last year and was merged into another Hunt that I helped found not to many years ago as an alternative to the old hunt gone bad. As the old hunt was obviously sinking, I spoke to Staff in that old hunt telling them they had to do something. I basically got the same reaction I got from the dressage group. If you speak up to wannabees, they trash you or try. You see this in polo too but the US Polo Association is very well run (i.e. they never joined the USEF) and they let the wannabes come and go but make sure they do little damage. Morris with his "lite beer" method of riding acted as a magnet for wannabees in the 1970's and 80's. It is fascinating that with the exception of southern Ontario Canada, his method was rejected outside the US. That says volumes about our American culture. For example here I made a demand regarding participation here from the newbies. what do the know about Morris. We got one credible response and I suspect that was the result of a google search, not what I asked for, which was a report on how and what their equestrian education has taught them about their roots in riding. The bottom line is wannabees don't know because they don't care or respect that they are part of a chain of custody of a sport. All it is for them is their riding now. No past, no future, just me. |
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Post by horseguy on Jun 30, 2017 22:49:54 GMT
I deleted this post and will next time ban the ISP of the Guest.
I delete posts that are off topic. The judgment contained in the post is both off topic and a childish expression of emotional victimization. Only people who can be adult and keep their emotions like victimization to themselves are welcome here. We don't care if you feel "wronged". We are not here to help you mature, only to discuss horsemanship. Your entitlement expressed in your judgments is tedious. Your demand that I address the riders you name is completely unimportant to me.
You have been given advice, not taken. You have been asked to contribute your state of awareness on Morris, none can be seen. Please know that when I delete, I cut and paste posts and ISPs to a file. That file will be sent to the District Attorney with a complaint of internet stalking and bullying if this continues. Criminal charges harm a person's credit rating as well as educational and job opportunities. This is more advice, yours to take or leave.
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Post by horseguy on Jul 1, 2017 11:41:14 GMT
What's interesting to me about the above post is the defining of my precise presentation of how and why Morris undermined American riding standards as "complaining". It strikes me that if they took their car (when they are old enough to own a car) to a garage and the mechanic told them the car needed new brakes and a timing chain, they would ask the mechanic why he was complaining about their car.
This betrays a singularly emotional reality in what is almost completely a physical context. They feel fine about their riding and the riding of their peers, and that is all that matters. They do not look for objective information like our Eventing Team's record of "success" or all the hunt Staff who speak with an Irish brogue, to find insight into where our national riding standards really are. All that seems to matter is how the feel about it all. I must conclude from this that I cannot help them. I have no interested in dealing with their feelings in any way whatsoever.
So I think we are done here with these trolls.
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 11:15:24 GMT
That's what I get for taking vacation. I miss out on all the trolls.
I know who GM is, I've read a few of his critiques and that's about it. I was always confused about why he cared about the rider's clothing.
Breaking down the seat, balance equipment made sense. Unless the pic was clearly a show picture, I don't see what clothing or cut has to do with it. If your eye can be so distracted by the color of shirt someone is wearing, I find it difficult to trust the "read" of everything else.
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Post by horseguy on Jul 5, 2017 13:04:50 GMT
That's what I get for taking vacation. I miss out on all the trolls. I know who GM is, I've read a few of his critiques and that's about it. I was always confused about why he cared about the rider's clothing. Breaking down the seat, balance equipment made sense. Unless the pic was clearly a show picture, I don't see what clothing or cut has to do with it. If your eye can be so distracted by the color of shirt someone is wearing, I find it difficult to trust the "read" of everything else. I have been meaning to say something, your jeans in your profile thumbnail pic are rather baggy.  |
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Post by rideanotherday on Jul 5, 2017 13:09:23 GMT
That's what I get for taking vacation. I miss out on all the trolls. I know who GM is, I've read a few of his critiques and that's about it. I was always confused about why he cared about the rider's clothing. Breaking down the seat, balance equipment made sense. Unless the pic was clearly a show picture, I don't see what clothing or cut has to do with it. If your eye can be so distracted by the color of shirt someone is wearing, I find it difficult to trust the "read" of everything else. I have been meaning to say something, your jeans in your profile thumbnail pic are rather baggy. They aren't "baggy". They are long enough to cover my ankles when my knee is bent riding. =) |
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Post by horseguy on Jul 5, 2017 13:29:07 GMT
If you observe George, you will notice that the has riding boots for walking in his clinics and broken-in boots for riding, a subtle yet important lesson for us all.  |
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