|
Post by rideanotherday on Jan 27, 2016 14:45:30 GMT
As one old timer once told me, "horsemanship is the art of keeping the horse between you and the ground."
I think that's a good place to start, but there's more to it than that. Good horsemanship is not just being a good rider. Being able to "feel" the horse, timing, balance, rhythm and understanding how to move with the horse and influence his movements without interfering in them. That's not all it is either, it's having his best interests in mind when training, riding or handling.
What is horsemanship to you?
|
|
|
Post by horseguy on Jan 27, 2016 16:17:47 GMT
When I was a boy people I respected would use the term "horseman" when describing someone who had more ability that to just ride a horse as one might drive a car. In other words, to call someone a horseman, a term that applied equally to men and women, was a compliment. Back then calling a person a "rider" was a subtle insult.
|
|
|
Post by rideanotherday on Jan 27, 2016 19:16:08 GMT
When I was a boy people I respected would use the term "horseman" when describing someone who had more ability that to just ride a horse as one might drive a car. In other words, to call someone a horseman, a term that applied equally to men and women, was a compliment. Back then calling a person a "rider" was a subtle insult. I think being called a rider is still an insult, though perhaps some don't mind it as much as others. Better at least to be a rider, than to just be a passenger. As a trail guide, I saw plenty of both. I don't think being skilled as a rider makes a person a horseman. There's more to it than that. Husbandry, riding, training, skill with horses on the ground and in the saddle...just more.
|
|
|
Post by Jlynn on Jan 27, 2016 20:49:54 GMT
One of the best horsemen I ever knew never rode - he worked teams of horses - logging, plowing, gathering sap, giving hay rides, and even horse pulls. He had more knowledge in his little finger (literally - sometimes all he moved was his little finger) than I will ever have. He could shoe his own horses, put up his own hay (although he used a tractor for that) and ran a harness repair on the side.
|
|
|
Post by jacki on Jan 27, 2016 23:04:30 GMT
I think it's like asking what it means to be a grown-up? It seems like a simple question until you try to actually answer it, yet we all recognize one when we see one. There is no magic number of hours spent with horses, no "tests" or certificates, no master list of skills or traits, etc. I don't think there's a moment in time when one "becomes" a horseman - just a realization over time that you have become one. And who gets to bestow that term on you? Can you simply call yourself a horseman? I believe the horses know the difference. I have spent years watching lesson horses with different riders, and sometimes you can SEE a horse act differently with a particular rider - more alert, yet also more relaxed somehow. I don't think that makes them horsemen, but maybe intuitive riders on their way to becoming horsemen one day. Even in the Olympics or the Grand Prix or the Rolex, etc. there are riders who I would not consider "horsemen". I don't mean any disrespect, as I believe they are TOP riders. Among them are riders who seem to have a special sort of "communication" with their horse - like a good pair of figure skaters, yet even then I'm not sure they could be considered horsemen simply on the basis of their riding skills. You would have to watch them around horses outside of riding - there's a lot of "communication" that goes on with your horse outside of riding. Great question.
|
|
|
Post by rideanotherday on Jan 28, 2016 12:15:21 GMT
I think it's like asking what it means to be a grown-up? It seems like a simple question until you try to actually answer it, yet we all recognize one when we see one. There is no magic number of hours spent with horses, no "tests" or certificates, no master list of skills or traits, etc. I don't think there's a moment in time when one "becomes" a horseman - just a realization over time that you have become one. And who gets to bestow that term on you? Can you simply call yourself a horseman? I believe the horses know the difference. I have spent years watching lesson horses with different riders, and sometimes you can SEE a horse act differently with a particular rider - more alert, yet also more relaxed somehow. I don't think that makes them horsemen, but maybe intuitive riders on their way to becoming horsemen one day. Even in the Olympics or the Grand Prix or the Rolex, etc. there are riders who I would not consider "horsemen". I don't mean any disrespect, as I believe they are TOP riders. Among them are riders who seem to have a special sort of "communication" with their horse - like a good pair of figure skaters, yet even then I'm not sure they could be considered horsemen simply on the basis of their riding skills. You would have to watch them around horses outside of riding - there's a lot of "communication" that goes on with your horse outside of riding. Great question.
There's a lot that goes into being a horseman...and that's why I thought I would pose that question here. I've seen them too and have been lucky enough to work with some of them I have to give credit to the man who owned the trail barn I worked at. Well into his 70's and could still out work and out ride kids less than half his age. I watched him ride out this bay paint mare once and she got upset over something and started pitching a fit and bucking. I swear he sunk into the middle of that horse and just wrapped around her and got her settled. I have seen nothing like it.
|
|
|
Post by jimmy on Jan 28, 2016 15:48:09 GMT
When I get to the point I know enough, I might know what a horseman is. It's been forty years and I'm still not sure I am one.
|
|
|
Post by rideforever on Jan 28, 2016 19:08:50 GMT
When I get to the point I know enough, I might know what a horseman is. It's been forty years and I'm still not sure I am one. At least you know what you don't know, it's a place to start. To me, a horseman is more than just a rider. You add in components of horse husbandry, training, and care and concern for the wellbeing of the horses in your care. Ability to recognize various signs and symptoms, etc. a knowing of what to do, when to do it, and how to explain it
|
|
|
Post by horseguy on Jan 29, 2016 18:14:56 GMT
I agree that deeper horsemanship tends to be something older people who have spent a life with horses have more of. I am thinking of Fred Harris, former Master of Fox Hounds of the Cazenovia Hunt Club. In the 1980s, Fred was the last Hunt Master I knew, or knew of, who still wore a top hat in every hunt. I had the pleasure of riding with him often until he retired. I was in my early 40s and Fred in his mid 70s and we would ride some of the toughest wooded terrain in the worst winters I can remember. One time we stopped in a woods to catch our breath and he said, "I like riding with you, you can keep up." I said thank you but in my mind I thought, you are 30 years older than I, so I would hope so. Fred knew so much about horses and hounds. I suspected he'd forgotten much of what he once knew. He was a gentleman, but when tactful manners and convention opposed effective common sense, he went with sense. What I learned from this great horseman was to let a bold horse be bold. They don't make horsemen like Fred anymore.
|
|
|
Post by rideanotherday on Jan 29, 2016 18:34:26 GMT
They don't make horsemen like Fred anymore. Don't they? Or are they still in progress?
|
|
|
Post by horseguy on Jan 29, 2016 20:32:38 GMT
They don't make horsemen like Fred anymore. Don't they? Or are they still in progress? It is interesting to me that you feel this way. Once before we were discussing something about training and I said it was generational. Your response seemed to say that you do not believe that such differences exist. I believe they do. For example, Fred was born in the 19th century. He lived during the end of the horse as transportation era and through the transition to petroleum powered transportation. I can't imagine that because there were always cars and trucks in my life. But I a have heard countless stories from the older horsemen I knew in the 1950s through the 1980s. These were stories about things like a Model T getting stuck in a wet spot on a muddy road and walking all the way home to get a horse to pull out the car. These horsemen had a different perspective and sensibility. I suspect that contemporary western ranchers are more like them, in that they still use horses in a very practical way, as these older easterners did. My instructor was older than Fred and he was in the Cavalry. He kept his horses in the east on open ground in the 1950s by hobbling the lead horse each evening. If you got to the barn early enough, you could go out to get them with him. As we would walk down the dirt road to get the horses, he'd explain where they probably were based on the temperature, the weather and the part of the month. I was just a boy and I was always amazed at how he was right about 99% of the time. He'd takeoff the hobbles and we'd bring the lesson string back to the barn. So much has changed, from saving burlap feed bags for grooming cloths or the old wooden grain bins and medicine chests in the barn with all natural tonics and stuff that you'd find around a house or garage. Ever heard of a turpentine enema? All these things were generational. Time began to move faster in the mid 20th century, now it's real time. I believe that they are not making horsemen like Fred anymore. I can attest they are not making Hunt Masters like him for sure, unless they come from Ireland. I think that if a horse person denies much has and is being lost, they miss a lot. Many of the new young horse owners I meet who want to be considered horsemen are too defensive of their idea of what level horseman they are to listen. They don't want to learn old methods. If I had a quarter for every time a 20 something horse owner cut me off when I was explaining something, I could buy a new truck. That in itself is a change. 50 years ago you felt fortunate if an old horsemen would explain things to you. You got up a little earlier so you could take that walk to find the horses. I don't see a lot of that any more.
|
|
|
Post by rideforever on Jan 29, 2016 20:36:12 GMT
I believe there are still horsemen, and you're right, they aren't like Fred. We have learned so much, that as old knowledge is lost to the history book, new knowledge is being embraced.
And that is ok
|
|
|
Post by rideanotherday on Jan 29, 2016 20:42:13 GMT
Don't they? Or are they still in progress? It is interesting to me that you feel this way. Once before we were discussing something about training and I said it was generational. Your response seemed to say that you do not believe that such differences exist. I believe they do. For example, Fred was born in the 19th century. He lived during the end of the horse as transportation era and through the transition to petroleum powered transportation. I can't imagine that because there were always cars and trucks in my life. But I a have heard countless stories from the older horsemen I knew in the 1950s through the 1980s. These were stories about things like a Model T getting stuck in a wet spot on a muddy road and walking all the way home to get a horse to pull out the car. These horsemen had a different perspective and sensibility. I suspect that contemporary western ranchers are more like them, in that they still use horses in a very practical way, as these older easterners did. My instructor was older than Fred and he was in the Cavalry. He kept his horses in the east on open ground in the 1950s by hobbling the lead horse each evening. If you got to the barn early enough, you could go out to get them with him. As we would walk down the dirt road to get the horses, he'd explain where they probably were based on the temperature, the weather and the part of the month. I was just a boy and I was always amazed at how he was right about 99% of the time. He'd takeoff the hobbles and we'd bring the lesson string back to the barn. So much has changed, from saving burlap feed bags for grooming cloths or the old wooden grain bins and medicine chests in the barn with all natural tonics and stuff that you'd find around a house or garage. Ever heard of a turpentine enema? All these things were generational. Time began to move faster in the mid 20th century, now it's real time. I believe that they are not making horsemen like Fred anymore. I can attest they are not making Hunt Masters like him for sure, unless they come from Ireland. I think that if a horse person denies much has and is being lost, they miss a lot. Many of the new young horse owners I meet who want to be considered horsemen are too defensive of their idea of what level horseman they are to listen. They don't want to learn old methods. If I had a quarter for every time a 20 something horse owner cut me off when I was explaining something, I could buy a new truck. That in itself is a change. 50 years ago you felt fortunate if an old horsemen would explain things to you. You got up a little earlier so you could take that walk to find the horses. I don't see a lot of that any more. When we know better, we should do better. There have been advances in understanding of movement and nutrition etc. It's time to embrace change. All that is new is not necessarily bad. Perhaps that's a generational thing, to find it difficult to look to the present and future and find how what we knew, fits with what we know now. I certainly wouldn't be where I am today if I had hung onto only what I used to know.
|
|
|
Post by jimmy on Jan 30, 2016 0:12:53 GMT
Every generation seems to think it's better than the last. It is not all about the increased knowledge, or hanging on to old knowledge. It is changing attitudes towards horse use.
Hobbling a whole herd of horse these days, unless you are a cowboy, would be considered cruel today. I'll take the new knowledge, with some old attitudes.
|
|
|
Post by horseguy on Jan 30, 2016 17:55:19 GMT
Every generation seems to think it's better than the last. It is not all about the increased knowledge, or hanging on to old knowledge. It is changing attitudes towards horse use. Hobbling a whole herd of horse these days, unless you are a cowboy, would be considered cruel today. I'll take the new knowledge, with some old attitudes. I agree but sometimes it's hard to change my attitude like about pet horses today with no job. I think the biggest progress in horsemanship has been in equine nutrition. Hay and oats didn't do it for all horses, but for many years that was it. I'm not sure if I was clear, but when I told the story of open turnout, my instructor hobbled only the lead horse. I think today even that would get you reported to animal rights people. For many years I trained all young my horses to accept hobbles. I gave that up maybe 20 years ago.
|
|