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Post by jimmy on Jan 31, 2016 15:52:19 GMT
I'm old enough to see many attitudes change. The focus has gone from usefulness, performance, control, to another extreme of whether or not you have correctly trained the right muscles, and have complete bio-mechanical understanding.
Which may not be all bad. But it bothers me, that many are spouting all this superior knowledge, and can say things like "the horse must come through and be working over his back and has stretched his nuchal ligament, and is seeking the bit", and many other great sounding things, they themselves are very untrained riders, and their horse don't load well, can't tie, afraid of clippers, and otherwise completely coddled to and indulged in. Where is the horsemanship in that? What good is all that knowledge, if you don't really know what the horse is about? As if they are talking about nothing but moving meat and muscle and tendons, and judging horsemanship on how well you are doing that. Especially if it results in a horse that can't be ridden outside, or used for anything practical.
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Post by rideanotherday on Feb 1, 2016 11:38:49 GMT
I'm old enough to see many attitudes change. The focus has gone from usefulness, performance, control, to another extreme of whether or not you have correctly trained the right muscles, and have complete bio-mechanical understanding. Which may not be all bad. But it bothers me, that many are spouting all this superior knowledge, and can say things like "the horse must come through and be working over his back and has stretched his nuchal ligament, and is seeking the bit", and many other great sounding things, they themselves are very untrained riders, and their horse don't load well, can't tie, afraid of clippers, and otherwise completely coddled to and indulged in. Where is the horsemanship in that? What good is all that knowledge, if you don't really know what the horse is about? As if they are talking about nothing but moving meat and muscle and tendons, and judging horsemanship on how well you are doing that. Especially if it results in a horse that can't be ridden outside, or used for anything practical. You know, that's been something that has just escaped me for years. The things people will tolerate from horses and still call themselves "horsemen". There are base skills a horse should have. Tying, trailering, and yes, being hobbled (and more, of course). And they should be respectful while doing it. I know that horses at the top of their discipline sometimes have "quirks" and a person will put up with them, simply because the horse performs at a high level. That, I get. What I don't get are the hobbyists, amateurs or even non-pros who put up with their horse behaving abusively. Maybe they don't know about how to get quiet, respectful horses. I know just enough about anatomy and physiology that the bio-mechanical movement makes sense to me and I'll use as much of it as I can. The reality of bio-mechanics and asking your horse to use himself correctly can cause work induced discomfort. A horse is not like a human. They don't care about working better. They care about eating. Too much discomfort can make a horse sour and also not want to use the muscles that are more "correct"...as defined by a human. |
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Post by horseguy on Feb 1, 2016 15:10:57 GMT
...I know that horses at the top of their discipline sometimes have "quirks" and a person will put up with them, simply because the horse performs at a high level. That, I get. What I don't get are the hobbyists, amateurs or even non-pros who put up with their horse behaving abusively. Maybe they don't know about how to get quiet, respectful horses... I know I regularly criticize here some of the Argentine training methods I have observed over the years, but I must say that I have never seen an Argie polo horse with a quirk. Their top horses, best in the world, can be handed to an apprentice groom on their first day of work and they act right. That idea of indulging successful competition horses is new. I am recalling Snowman, the great Stadium Jumper, that was in a lesson string on his days off.
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Post by rideanotherday on Feb 1, 2016 15:41:38 GMT
Are quirks new? <shrug> I'd rather see top performers have to maintain the same level of compliance as a lesson string horse, simply because that increases the ability to sell the horse later.
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Post by horseguy on Feb 1, 2016 16:54:23 GMT
Are quirks new? <shrug> I'd rather see top performers have to maintain the same level of compliance as a lesson string horse, simply because that increases the ability to sell the horse later. Yes, permitting "quirks" in horses is new. It used to be a source of embarrassment for a horse owner if they had a horse that had poor manners. Now it is as if it is a badge of specialness. Owners call themselves "mom" and when their horse acts up they treat it as cute and individualistic. It's just stupid. |
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Post by rideanotherday on Feb 1, 2016 17:47:12 GMT
Interesting. One of the horses that comes to mind will untie ropes. That's her quirk. Jessie doesn't spoil the mare at all, doesn't call herself a horse "mom". It's just a busy horse, who gets tied with quick release trailer ties, rather than ropes.
I'm sure other quirks came to mind, but not all are a bad thing. Just like not all people who have horses with "quirks" are spoiling their horses.
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Post by Jlynn on Feb 1, 2016 19:16:14 GMT
Rideanotherday said "I know that horses at the top of their discipline sometimes have "quirks" and a person will put up with them, simply because the horse performs at a high level. That, I get. What I don't get are the hobbyists, amateurs or even non-pros who put up with their horse behaving abusively. Maybe they don't know about how to get quiet, respectful horses." I'm confused. If the horse performs at a high level, it's okay, but not if it belongs to a hobbyist, amateur or non-pro? Maybe I am missing something here....
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Post by rideanotherday on Feb 1, 2016 19:21:44 GMT
Rideanotherday said "I know that horses at the top of their discipline sometimes have "quirks" and a person will put up with them, simply because the horse performs at a high level. That, I get. What I don't get are the hobbyists, amateurs or even non-pros who put up with their horse behaving abusively. Maybe they don't know about how to get quiet, respectful horses." I'm confused. If the horse performs at a high level, it's okay, but not if it belongs to a hobbyist, amateur or non-pro? Maybe I am missing something here.... If a horse performs at a high level, typically (but not always) the handlers are also at a level where they can manage the quirks. That's not always the case at the lower levels. What happens at the lower levels are more pets, rather than performers, at least in my experience. I'm sure Horseguy has seen more. |
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Post by horseguy on Feb 1, 2016 19:29:13 GMT
Rideanotherday said "I know that horses at the top of their discipline sometimes have "quirks" and a person will put up with them, simply because the horse performs at a high level. That, I get. What I don't get are the hobbyists, amateurs or even non-pros who put up with their horse behaving abusively. Maybe they don't know about how to get quiet, respectful horses." I'm confused. If the horse performs at a high level, it's okay, but not if it belongs to a hobbyist, amateur or non-pro? Maybe I am missing something here.... Jlynn, I think what mighty be confusing you is you are trying to use logic. It's not logical at all. There is a contemporary belief that horses that compete well or are "winners" deserve to be annoyingly ill-mannered. And then many horse owners today feel their horse is a "winner", and thus special, and they too are allowed to be annoyingly ill-mannered jerks. It's almost by now as if when you have a well manner horse, he must be just average. Crazy, illogical, stupid, but that's how it often is at least around here. We have so many "special" horses in the east, don't cha know.  |
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Post by Jlynn on Feb 2, 2016 0:29:01 GMT
Welllll where I live there are mostly just average horses but it seems to me that if a horse is performing at a high level, the person that works with him also is performing at a high level and although he or she can manage the poor behavior, he also knows how to stop it. And wouldn't it be easier to not have to deal with the behavior day after day?
I realize it is that logic thing again(I used to work for the DMV and I heard that a LOT), but I couldn't deal with a horse day in and day out that wouldn't tie or stand while I got on or load or... or... or... when I knew I could darn well fix the problem.
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