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Post by horseguy on Mar 21, 2016 12:57:19 GMT
Everyone can improve their riding. There are limits, like being old and stiff, or out of shape, or dealing with previous or recent body damage, but there are ways around limits. Then there is the time thing. Not enough time to ride. That's hard but still, in the time we have we can improve.
I think the most direct and most efficient path to improving riding is to discover shared balance and movement as the primary goal. What this means is when you do get to be with your horse, don't sit on the horse, but rather let the horse move and then let the horse move you until you are "in" the horse and moving with him/her in some sort of unity. This means don't focus on skills, tasks, forms like headset, and other goals until you have found some degree of shared center of balance and movement.
Back in the day when I was training a lot of horses at one time, the biggest challenge was to find suitable prospects. With no internet, only bulletin boards at tack and feed stores and classified ads it was a constant pursuit. One time I heard about a breeder in NJ who was selling out and had over 40 horses from babies to 5 year olds. She bred Welsh/TBs. Not bad polo prospects I thought.
I drove there early in the morning and took a few saddles, girths, and bridles. It was one of those breeding farms with no place to ride. I walked from paddock to paddock and picked out 7 or 8 prospects I liked the look of. One by one I brought them to a barn, brushed and saddled them and rode each one in the driveway. None had been saddled and ridden before. When it was all done I bought two cheap. As I was loading them the owner said, "You know, you came here and rode 8 horses that had never been ridden before." I said that I hardly ever bought a horse I had not ridden. She said, "I never saw that before". I thanked her and drove back to my farm.
I knew that was unusual but it is true, I hate to buy a horse that I have not "felt" and to feel them you have to ride them. I want to feel their foot falls and how they soften their back as we connect and move. I want to feel if they hunch at all when I ask them nicely to move off my seat. Mounting a horse that has never been ridden is like meeting someone on a first date. It can be awkward if you let it, but it can be a present kind of thing where you let the other party be themselves. I have had some pretty awful first dates with this philosophy, but I found some good horses too.
My point is that to become a better rider we have to have some degree of this "first date" openness and time of discovery, and movement toward connection each time before we can think of any goals like skills, tasks, forms and other goals. We have to connect before we move on to a purpose. There has to be a comfortable connection that goes both ways. I think if every rider took maybe five minutes to just let their horse move and relax, and they followed that movement of their horse before they ride as they habitually do, their riding will improve. It works like it worked at that NJ breeding farm. Get up in the saddle and wait until the horse wants to move. It sends a message of mutuality and that will improve your riding as much or more than a DVD or sometimes a lesson. Let the horse move you and feel that movement.
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Post by jimmy on Mar 21, 2016 14:30:24 GMT
Good post HG.
Here's another Ray-ism you would like.
First you go with the horse. Then he goes with you. Pretty soon, you both go together.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 23, 2016 19:15:24 GMT
Good post HG. Here's another Ray-ism you would like. First you go with the horse. Then he goes with you. Pretty soon, you both go together. I like everything I hear about Ray Hunt. It is a true reflection of American Horsemanship that he is far less known that people like Pat Parelli and George Morris. What's that about? The movie BuckI like everything I hear about Ray Hunt. It is a real comment on American horsemanship and authenticity that he is far less known that people like Pat Parelli or George Morris. natural horsemanship - small "n" This site also mentions Parelli and Monty Roberts but they are at the end of the listings.  From right to left: – Tom Dorrance on a snaffle bit horse (first stage); – Ray Hunt on a bosal horse (first and second stage); – Bill Dorrance on a bridle horse (fourth stage _ third being the two-rein horse). |
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Post by jimmy on Mar 23, 2016 20:02:53 GMT
Ironic that just in the last decade, horsemanship has moved to where people would now think that Ray was too harsh or rough. And Ray could be pretty hard on some people. I even heard him at clinics,more than once, offer a rider if he or she wanted their money back, since they weren't there to learn, or wanted to argue.
Agree with Ray or not, there was just no one like him, ever. He was the most authentic person I have ever met.
HG, you would have loved talking to him. And he had a speech pattern and inflections that, whatever it was, compelled everyone to listen to him. When Ray started talking anywhere, everyone else stopped talking. I don't know what that was, or how to describe it, but it was special.
his widow Carolyn is doing these annual events in partners with Buck Brannaman, called Legacy of Legends. If is a gathering of like minded horsemen and women, and proceeds go to a sort of scholarship for up and coming young people to be able to study with one of these trainers. If you ever get a chance, HG, check it out. Jaton Lord is Ray's grandson. When it comes to starting a young horses, it just doesn't get any better watching young adults like him. At least in the western tradition.
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Post by rideanotherday on Mar 24, 2016 13:38:13 GMT
Horseguy, Buck Brannaman is going to be (sort of) in your neck of the woods in September. Here are the details.
September 23-26
Classes: Foundation Horsemanship (9:00 AM), Horsemanship 1 (1:30)
Sponsor: Susan Witte
Phone: 908-238-9587
Email:susan@7sfarm.com
Website:www.7sfarm.com
Facebook: facebook.com/7 Springs Farm
Venue: Seven Springs Farm, 14 Perryville Road, Pittstown, NJ 08867
Details: Visit the website to get all details on the fantastic facility. A limited food concession will be available during the clinic. Parking is available around the barn and on Perryville Road. Indoor arena comfortably accommodates 100-125 spectators. Bring a chair for additional seating. Dogs not allowed in the barn but have to be leashed on farm grounds.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 24, 2016 15:14:13 GMT
Horseguy, Buck Brannaman is going to be (sort of) in your neck of the woods in September. Here are the details. September 23-26 Classes: Foundation Horsemanship (9:00 AM), Horsemanship 1 (1:30) Details: Visit the website to get all details on the fantastic facility. A limited food concession will be available during the clinic. Parking is available around the barn and on Perryville Road. Indoor arena comfortably accommodates 100-125 spectators. Bring a chair for additional seating. Dogs not allowed in the barn but have to be leashed on farm grounds. I went to the website and it is sold out, auditors on first come basis. Long drive and a risk of not getting in. Good idea though. Thanks. |
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Post by horseguy on Mar 24, 2016 15:44:43 GMT
 This is where we need to be real honest with ourselves. We need to discover how a horse experiences struggle with a rider. I have coached some very successful riders, a few reached national rankings. They had a lot of skills and if you asked them if they struggled with their horses they would say, no. But that would be a human definition of struggle. These high achievers often struggle with a horse by giving too much information, which to them becomes noise. For a horse, not being understood is a struggle. Spoiling a horse so he gets pushy is another struggle for a horse about trying to find a partner or a leader in a rider. I like that Bill Dorrance used the words "less attractive". Those are subtle words. I don't think he is talking mostly about dealing with some outlaw horse or a young unbroken horse. In those horses the struggle can get very visible or obvious. I think maybe he is talking about the everyday pebble in the shoe struggles horses have to deal with from unconscious riders. I also don't think that he's talking mostly about competitors who push hard to win. I think he may be talking about riders who want to be a passenger and by doing so cast the horse in the role of their favorite cab driver. These riders might bring a treat or gift, have kind words, let him do as he pleases "to be nice", but if you truly want to be nice, treat him kindly and give a gift to a cab driver, you tell him where you want to go, when you need to get there and maybe what streets you want him to take. That's what makes his day. If you don't, you might see less than attractive behavior as he struggles to do his job and overcome his frustration with a directionless, passenger that doesn't make sense to him. This is when horses and cab drives give up and take over. This is also when horses struggle a lot and well meaning riders get offended because they were "so nice to him" and he is being unattractive. He won't go on the trailer, rubs his head on people to the point of almost knocking them over, won't get his feet wet crossing a stream, he is struggling with insufficient direction and he gets unattractive as he struggles to survive human unconsciousness. That's my take on Bill Dorrance's words here in the broadest sense. |
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Post by jimmy on Mar 24, 2016 19:37:28 GMT
Both Tom and Bill felt there was a strong sense of self preservation in a horse. It is this that brings out the "fight" in one.
So many bring the self preservation to the surface without knowing it, and it is mistaken for deliberate obstinate refusal or resistance that presents itself in the less attractive behaviors we all are familiar with.
Even in so called "outlaws" or unbroke horses, they wanted to avoid trouble, and felt that the horse actually wanted to avoid trouble more than anything else in his life. If there was pressure, the most favorable option would be to set it up so the horse came against his own pressure. And that is where the release becomes more important than the pressure before hand.
Ray and Bill had their differences, which I witnessed many years ago.
Ray would say, make the wrong thing difficult, and the right thing easy.
Whereas Bill was apt to aks, why would you make anything difficult for the horse?. Make the right thing obvious.
So many are so busy making the wrong thing difficult, they don't set up the right thing to happen. The horse goes into self preservation mode, and he will appear to be difficult, exposing his "less attractive" nature.
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Post by horseguy on Mar 30, 2016 13:33:52 GMT
"So many are so busy making the wrong thing difficult, they don't set up the right thing to happen."
I guess I agree with this, but I am also thinking about the horses that are dangerously ill-mannered. I think the vast majority of horses want to connect with people and do the right thing if its made clear to them. But people are sometimes incompetent and they do, as you say, forget to set a horse up for the right thing. If training is done incorrectly often enough, the horse gets inadvertently trained to be chronically in their self preservation mode. That's when, I think, it becomes necessary to make the wrong thing difficult. But otherwise, it is not that difficult to focus almost entirely on making the right thing obvious.
My experience is good trainers get a lot of other people's mistakes to fix. People buy or breed a horse and they have a belief that they can train it, but they don't have enough experience or understanding. They muddle along and the horse gets confused, which leads to mild self preservation in the horse at first, but they continue and make a worse mess of things. At that point many owners send the horse off to a trainer. It would be far wiser and less costly to begin with some help from an experienced trainer. I have seen this pattern over and over with poor results in terms of manners, balance, movement, everything because they push the horse into some level of self preservation, which only teaches the horse to fight more effectively. To bring a horse along well and efficiently it takes understanding on multiple levels at the same time as training progresses. But in a age when anyone can find out everything on the internet, everyone is a self proclaimed expert until it's obvious that they are not.
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