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Post by jimmy on May 15, 2016 2:51:04 GMT
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Post by horseguy on May 15, 2016 22:40:21 GMT
Years ago I had a riding student who told be her grandfather had been un the US Cavalry. I asked her if he was still alive and she said he lived in a nursing home. I went o visit him. Turned out he was in the US Mounted Artillery, similar to the video. He had never ridden a horse before signing up for the Army in 1928. He was sent to Fort Hoyle (now part of the Aberdeen Proving Ground north of Baltimore), which was an artillery post. On his third day as an Artilleryman he learned that his regiment was leaving for Fort Indiantown Gap PA the next day, a three day 100 mile "hike". When he arrived after three days riding in a McClellan saddle, he said he could not sit down for a week. He started out as middle or "swing" rider of the six horse hitch, the rider with the least responsibility. Next he was promoted to "wheel" rider, who is responsible for being the 'brakes' of the hitch. After years he was promoted "lead" rider up front, who was responsible for guiding the entire rig. His name was Jim Miller and his favorite horse during his enlistment was a gelding named Halifax. He told me how dangerous it was to be "flying artillery" because if the lead rider cut a turn path that was too quick the gun, a French 75 mm that weight 3,400 pounds would swing out as if to pass the hitch and crack all the horses and riders to the ground like a bull whip. That was when riders rode.
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Post by jimmy on May 16, 2016 0:20:49 GMT
To think that some make heroes out of people who trot along side a horse in an arena!
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Post by horseguy on May 16, 2016 13:31:40 GMT
To think that some make heroes out of people who trot along side a horse in an arena! Jimmy, you know that in the past I have taken some heat in forums for sticking to my traditional views and the Fort Riley Seat, used by my friend Jim who served in in the US Mounted Artillery. I met him in the late 1980s when Morris' Hunter Seat Equitation was on the rise. He was thankful that I was teaching his granddaughter the "old way". He gave me his US issue spurs and his regimental photo with him sitting on Halifax. He said, "You should have them". I tell this because I knew several of these men who rode horses in ways no one can anymore. They, like Jim, saw later in life that the horsemanship they had learned and used was being diminished with time. All the difficulty that came with their horsemanship was a vast reservoir of something deeper than how we experience as horsemanship today. He told me of his First Sergeant, who got so drunk he missed roll call, was busted down to Pvt. and lost the pay to support his wife and kids. The men under him contributed some of their meager Army pay to his family until his Sergeant's rank was restored. Jim told me of the difficulty of having to care for two horses, as every Artilleryman was required to do. He was quick to tell remind Cavalrymen only had one horse to look after. In our visits, he shared stories of a time in his life that he felt was the best. He also told me that only a couple years after his discharge from the Mounted Artillery the Second World War broke out and he reenlisted. Since the horses were gone and because he had handled high explosive shells, he was assigned to the Ordinance arm of the Army. He went ashore at Normandy carrying a back pack full of over 100 pounds of explosives. His landing craft was sunk not far from the shore but somehow he made it to the beach, picked up an M1 Carbine from a fallen soldier and made it to the cliffs. Not your average guy. Therefore, you can imagine how I feel, having known such a horseman as Jim and others who valued their horsemanship training so much, when I encounter some of today's horse owners who insist on making pets out of the horses Jim, and men like him, so loved and rode so powerfully.
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Post by jimmy on May 16, 2016 21:10:14 GMT
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Post by horseguy on May 17, 2016 11:58:23 GMT
Great video. The desensitization with the rack of uniformed dummies was great. It was interesting to see all the volunteers who help train the horses by participating in the gauntlet of noise makers and movement. I liked the burning smoking piles of hay too. In another topic I told of my friend in the Philadelphia Police Mounted Unit who trained their horses. A lot of it was desensitization to machines, heavy equipment, fire trucks, jack hammers, etc. I'd like to see more mounted units of police. I think they build a connection with people and neighborhoods.
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Post by horseguy on May 17, 2016 12:26:27 GMT
This is a good topic. We touch on it a lot in other topics, but it is good to focus on how horses were viewed when they were necessary in a practical way in the past and now when they are not necessary, but rather for our enjoyment. Since I began riding at the end of the necessary era and knew many people who lived much of their lives before cars, I got their attitudes about horses by some kind of osmosis, I think. When I was training horses and doing a little teaching of riding at 40 young women in particular would tell me or imply that I didn't care about horses. It took me a while, but eventually I got that they meant that I didn't care about horses the way they did.
I met a woman yesterday who just had her horse put down. The aged horse had a corn cob lodged cross ways in its throat and could not be save without surgery which she could not afford, plus the horse was old and might not have recovered from surgery well. She went on and on about how she loved her horse and how sad she was, and silently all I could think was that she fed her horse corn cobs and that was risky, OK stupid. But she loved her horse so much. You can feed corn cobs to horses but they need to have plenty of other feed around so they leave the cob. That's available information and the way I care about horses is I learn about them and protect them with knowledge. I don't have dreamy ideas about them and trust my loving "instincts" to make decisions like feeding corn cobs incorrectly. Still, I have no doubt that this sad horse owner would believe that she loves horses more than I do.
One reason I think pets are satisfying is they are like screens that we can project our feelings onto and see an idealized version of how we fantasize our lives. i.e. my dog always loves me. Horses don't make the best screens for our fantasies. They were bred for thousands of years for work and war.
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Post by horseguy on May 17, 2016 12:40:31 GMT
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Post by rideforever on May 17, 2016 16:41:14 GMT
People do project their emotions onto their horses. I spend a lot of time teaching people to see their horses as they are, not the way they want them to be. And it is hard for people to get that message. Perhaps because so many movies and books show a fantastic (read fantasy) relationship with horses, and they want some of that magic to fill their lives.
I'm glad that I don't see horses the way you do horseguy, it wouldn't work for me. They are not cars. But, I don't treat them as pets either, they are livestock. Horses do better if they have some kind of employment. I knew an old trail mare once. She'd been in the trail string for 20 years, and even if she was let loose for a day off; Old Sophie would put herself in line and do her job. I like a horse to know its job. They get along so much better. Oddly, it is easier to teach a horse it's job, than to convince and owner that it's ok to make the horse do its job. People are complicated
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Post by horseguy on May 17, 2016 18:56:59 GMT
I don't see horses as cars but I do see them more as utilitarian than most rider/owners today. As the Cavalry recruiting poster says, "have a courageous friend". That friendship was part of how I was taught, but also that the horse was not mine, as a Cavalryman's horse was not his. The horse was government property and as such required a certain level of care or there were consequences like a court-martial. The summary emotion might be more like teammate than anything else for me.
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Post by jimmy on May 18, 2016 0:26:40 GMT
I don't think you can fathom the trust or bond or connection with a horse at it's fullest, until it has been tasted in times when your life or safety depended on it. I have been in a few. Those are horses that earn a special place. I am one of those people, who don't think every horse has earned that special place simply by being a horse. Call me hard and unfeeling if you want. But once you experience a horse through a hard trail, it is hard to hold him to the same stature as a pasture pet.
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Post by horseguy on May 18, 2016 13:07:06 GMT
I don't think you can fathom the trust or bond or connection with a horse at it's fullest, until it has been tasted in times when your life or safety depended on it. I have been in a few. Those are horses that earn a special place. I am one of those people, who don't think every horse has earned that special place simply by being a horse. Call me hard and unfeeling if you want. But once you experience a horse through a hard trail, it is hard to hold him to the same stature as a pasture pet. Amen to that.
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Post by horseguy on May 19, 2016 1:59:28 GMT
Some riding in this video.
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Post by jimmy on May 19, 2016 14:07:34 GMT
Some riding in this video. It's a freaking advertisement! What if you could learn to teach horses tricks? I am just soooo unimpressed by this stuff. I know I am supposed to feel something, and maybe feel almost like crying. But it makes me roll my eyes!
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Post by horseguy on May 19, 2016 14:33:31 GMT
It's a freaking advertisement! What if you could learn to teach horses tricks? I am just soooo unimpressed by this stuff. I know I am supposed to feel something, and maybe feel almost like crying. But it makes me roll my eyes! They give clinics for $250 a day for people to learn how to lay in a field with a bunch of old horses. Heck, I'd do it for $100 if I could get a group. I loved the part where the guy gets on bareback and the horse follows the other guy around in the pasture who is running from the horse. Clearly that is an other potential " At Liberty" Olympic event. I think to myself that the guys I knew who rode in the Army back in the day are thankfully dead now and do not have to see this stuff.
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